Marathon pb strategy

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Goofee Sep 2013 10:22pm, 7 Sep 2013 1,038 posts	0 Goofee My marathon PB is way down on what my half-marathon PB would suggest I should be capable of doing, so I clearly having effective training issues to address, however, just to add to the thread: my two fastest times (4:08 and 4:18) were achieved holding on as long as I could at 9ish minute miles and then fading badly, my next two quickest (4:25 and 4:28) were negative splits and the last six or so miles of both were fantastic, almost out-of-body experiences - it felt as if I was floating rather than running.
FR Sep 2013 10:49pm, 7 Sep 2013 16,751 posts	0 FR Equal paced but not equal effort is the way to go
Foxy Sep 2013 9:54pm, 8 Sep 2013 29,180 posts	0 Foxy My last 2 PB's were negative splits the last one marginally. Go out steady & gradually build & then give it everyting you have from 25 miles
Tim of MK Sep 2013 1:30pm, 23 Sep 2013 1,984 posts	0 Tim of MK There will be exceptions (including some detailed on this thread). But most people that I've consulted tell me that most ordinary runners - including those who pace their run by taking it a little easier in the first half and conserving energy - still fail to achieve a negative split. My perhaps naive view is that this approach would be stressful mentally. Going through say half-way knowing that I was behind schedule and so needed to run even faster. I'd rather give it my best shot over the first half and build up some 'credit' to bank.
FR Sep 2013 1:33pm, 23 Sep 2013 16,871 posts	0 FR No such thing as 'credit' in the bank. Every second you over do the first half of the race, will be increased by a magnitude of at least 10 over the last 10k.
Curly45 Sep 2013 1:41pm, 23 Sep 2013 2,059 posts	0 Curly45 I went too hard at Brighton - god the second half was awful! Got a neg split at a recent half (all right its not a marathon), first time ever, smashed my target and only the last 400m felt really difficult. I'll be looking for a neg split in all my races from now. I am convinced it works, but more importantly, it feels better.
TRO Saracen Sep 2013 2:24pm, 23 Sep 2013 7,915 posts	0 TRO Saracen Been through all variants of positive and negative splits, and negative is absolutely best. I was once a firm advocate of building up a small buffer of 2-3 mins in the first half then going at race pace as long as possible with that safety net there, and got my first major milestones (eg sub 3:15 and London GFA) with that tactic. But have run several minutes quicker, off very similar levels of fitness (half marathon times etc) with a well judged negative split. Negative split is about discipline and having the right pace. And it can be trained for, by doing progressive runs or some marathon paced work at the end of long runs. Also, when you do finally get it right it is the most unbeleivable feeling. Speeding up, surging through the field while everyone else around you slows up and is dying on their feet - it becomes self perpetuating. You feel like a God among mortals, and it makes you run like you never thought you could. This more than counter balances any negative thoughts aboiut being 'behind schedule'. I pace it as such now: Miles 1-5 MP + 15 secs (think of these as free miles, they'll feel so easy it's like you've hardly started the actual race) Miles 6-20 MP - 5 secs (slightly quicker than race pace - you should feel good, coming off the leash after the first 6 and in a nice race rhythm) Think of the first half of these 14 miles as a relaxed, enjoyable training run. Enjoy the sights, take your mind elsewhere, other than keeping to pace and keeping the nutrition going down. Miles 20-26 - MP. This should be just like the pace you knocked out in the last 20 mins of long runs etc. It'll be tough, but look at the state of everyone else as you pass them - far worse!
Marts Sep 2013 2:32pm, 23 Sep 2013 3,898 posts	0 Marts I always feel it's such a shame when runners put so much into marathon training and planning of training and then mess up the race plan. Ideally run as even as possible is best depending on course (eg London is prob about 1-3 mins quicker in 1st half due to the downhill stretch). In reality a slight postive of 1-2 mins is best to aim for. eg if I was going for a sub 4 i'd look to run about 1:59:00-1:59:30 for the 1st half. Of the 1st 100 people at VLM this year to cross the line after 4:00:00 (ie just missed sub 4) - 22 went through half way faster than 1:50 (so had a positive split of more than 20 minutes or> 90s/mile average slower in 2nd half) - 49 went through half way faster than 1:55 (so positive split of more than 10 minutes or >45s/mile slower on av in 2nd half) The biggest difference was 50 minutes (almost 4mins/mile slower 2nd half which has got to really hurt physically and mentally) and 7 people had a split more than 30mns slower. only 5 neg splits This doesn't take into account their target times (ie if someone who ran 1:45:xx/2:15:xx splits was a enuine sub 3:30 attempt or a sub 3:45 trying to get some "time in the bank" Going off fast to get 'time in the bank is madness, the marathon is tough enough in the last 5-6 miles without having knackered yourself by going off too fast. Most of my marathons have been even to within a few seconds per mile for all of the 8 5k splits and they've all still been tough (i've got the exact stats somewhere on a blog but it's private so as not to bore fetchworld ) One coaching book suggests for every 1 minute ahead of target your are at halfway you will lose 5 minutes (assuming a proper target has been set based on halfs and 10ks run in the build up). Also I would completely ignore Phil Hewitt's advice on any aspect of marathon running especially pacing as evidenced by most of his races starting well and then him writing about how awful he felt in the last half (especially amsterdam from memory). It makes for publishable writing, but poor running strategy.
Andy39 Sep 2013 4:27pm, 23 Sep 2013 272 posts	0 Andy39 I like the sound of that TRO. Now if I can just put it into practise at York next month.
Tim of MK Sep 2013 6:35pm, 23 Sep 2013 1,985 posts	0 Tim of MK Some perhaps sound advice from many who doubtless know better than me. Duly noted.