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London Marathon 2020

2 lurkers | 60 watchers
Aug 2020
2:16pm, 21 Aug 2020
445 posts
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Spideog
Carrying a phone in my case is the least of my worries for any attempt to get a GFA time.

I have a phone on me at all times though for other reasons including live tracking during runs, but more importantly for continuous monitoring of blood glucose levels and calculating insulin settings for my pump. I'm really not keen on the idea of an untested app being forced onto my phone before I've had a chance to check how it behaves with the other various apps that are actually important to me staying conscious*. Especially not if I'm about to head off for a long run.

Can't see how any phone app would provide better evidence of someone having actually run a specified distance in a specified time to a better quality than even the most basic of Garmin watches. They aren't going to be analysing it, but things such as cadence, HR, elevation, stride length that various Garmins will collect will be far more than any phone app is collecting. The only benefit I can see from the app is that they can make it impossible for us to access whatever data it is that they upload so removes the opportunity for anyone to hack it, they are not going to be able to tell if you are riding a bike or not or anything reliable about how far you actually ran, or if you had a mate carry the phone for you part of the way.

*Slightly over dramatising, but not by much. My staying alive is dependant on various bits of technology attached and embedded in my body and that their batteries last the duration of whatever I'm about to do. I don't make changes to what I'm doing with that tech lightly.
Aug 2020
2:19pm, 21 Aug 2020
11,746 posts
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larkim
We're leaping to the presumption that a tracking app will be required here, aren't we?

(From having used phone apps in the past, cadence, HR, elevation and stride length have all been adequately captured)
Aug 2020
2:27pm, 21 Aug 2020
11 posts
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Chrismean
Larkim - they do keep talking about an app ....
i don't know at all if it will be mandatory
Aug 2020
2:34pm, 21 Aug 2020
11,747 posts
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larkim
Yes, but they don't keep talking about a tracking app. An app could be something completely different to a GPS logging app (that's the point I was trying to make!).
Aug 2020
2:34pm, 21 Aug 2020
447 posts
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Spideog
In everything I've seen so far they have said the app is mandatory, plus for GFA people "something else" which they are not telling us yet.

Phones don't collect cadence, HR, or elevation by themselves. Cadence would just be able to possibly tell if you are walking or biking, but put the phone somewhere else about your person and it's equally likely to think you are skiing or rowing. Steps data on a phone is wildly different to what your watch will collect, or what might be collected by some HR straps. Elevation data is just going to be from GPS, or the maps app and whilst elevation isn't much of a deal in this case, it would help prove if a GPX file is genuine or not such as does it match with changes to stride length and cadence. The phone app picking up HR data would be entirely dependant on if you have a HR strap and can pair it to your phone.
Aug 2020
2:40pm, 21 Aug 2020
12 posts
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Chrismean
Spideog - agree with all you're saying. I hope on 31st they will give some clear guidelines
jda
Aug 2020
2:53pm, 21 Aug 2020
8,154 posts
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jda
It's clear that they are still making it up to some extent. The guidance already provided is a bit vague and poorly written.
Aug 2020
3:01pm, 21 Aug 2020
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larkim
Plenty of phones have barometric altimeters which means elevation data can (and will be, with some phones / apps) accurate. My watch has no such device, so my watch will only give my GPS based altitude so a trace from my watch would be just as unreliable as one from a phone without an altimeter.

Plenty of people run with watches that don't have HRMs built in, or with a supplemental HRM. So that deficit of a phone app is also mirrored with many watches.

You might not trust cadence data from a phone app, but there's no really good reason to not trust cadence reported from a phone vs from a watch, accepting that in some cases the positioning of it would be potentially inaccurate. But then again, I know people who run with their watch in their pockets.

All slightly off-topic really. Bottom line is that I don't think you can argue "all watches good, all phones bad" if you're looking to critique VLM's approach *if* they insist on virtual runs being recorded by a phone app.
jda
Aug 2020
3:04pm, 21 Aug 2020
8,156 posts
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jda
I just think it's a bit premature to litigate VLM's approach before they have even decided it themselves, let alone published it. But on the other hand, these forum pages won't fill themselves!
Aug 2020
3:08pm, 21 Aug 2020
240 posts
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KeithL
My only objection to a phone is having to carry one :-)

But as always its their race their rules and will do whats I need to. Luckily don't need it for GFA so I know I can be more relaxed than some

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Endless discussion about will it happen, won't it happen for VMLM 2020
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