Leg fatigue and half marathon training

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OJ Sep 2011 10:22am, 26 Sep 2011 56 posts	0 OJ Can anyone chip in with any advice about a half marathon training problem. I'm a bit worried that the schedule I'm doing (Runners World, 12 weeks, 5 x per week, sub 2-hr) is training me for speed rather than endurance. It's this one: runnersworld.co.uk At the 8 week mark I've just done a race pace time trial of the whole 13.1 miles and am feelings somewhat deflated. Fine for 10 miles, severely fatigued and painful legs to the point of having to stop multiple times for the last three. A fortnight ago I did a 10 miler at half marathon pace smoothly and without difficulty. Would you put this down to trying to race without tapering, going out too quickly etc. Or would you say that a schedule in which there's one long run a week, but the other four aren't usually above 5-6 miles, just isn't training me well enough to sustain pace over distance. It's doing great things for my 5K times by the way.... but that's not the point is it?
Gobi Sep 2011 12:37pm, 26 Sep 2011 44,301 posts	0 Gobi OJ - that is subscriber only content so I can't see the program but 13.1 mile TT at race pace sounds totally stupid. A half marathon is an aerobic race so without adequate aerobic distance work why would you be able to do another 3.1 miles at the same pace? The point of a Half plan is to have you ready for 1 HMP effort on a certain date. Sounds to me like your plan has you running too hard to build your aerobic engine. What paces are you using for training ? (For the record I maintain half marathon shape by doing a weekly 10 mile run in about the time it takes me to run a half)
Dvorak Sep 2011 12:41pm, 26 Sep 2011 4,605 posts	0 Dvorak My thoughts: I can't see this plan (subscriber only) but other RW plans I have seen just have too much running in them. You have doubled your training over the last two months - too much (see previous point ). You started this particular run too fast. Well done on the 5Ks - but maybe they are throwing your pace judgement out a little. Suggestions: do less. Try a couple of longer runs before the day (around HM distance or just over) at a considerably slower pace. Start the race further back than you think you should be. (For the record I have a collection of sub 2s (none much under) run off about 60-80% of what you are doing (in the 3 months before the race).
Dvorak Sep 2011 12:42pm, 26 Sep 2011 4,606 posts	0 Dvorak Oops hadn't seen Gobi's post (was typing) not meaning to copy his "for the record" bit
Willymo Sep 2011 12:45pm, 26 Sep 2011 376 posts	0 Willymo 13.1 miles at race pace??! Not surprised you found it a little tough!
Gobi Sep 2011 12:51pm, 26 Sep 2011 44,302 posts	0 Gobi Dv - one thing though, you cannot do too much running in a running plan. You can however build up too quickly.
OJ Sep 2011 1:24pm, 26 Sep 2011 57 posts	0 OJ Thanks for responses, really appreciated The half is the Birmingham Half Marathon, now Great Birmingham Run. With regard to the doubling of training Dvorak - you're right, but partly because the preceding months had been particularly low (holidays etc.). I've done similar training volumes in the last 12 months. Though I take your point. I was a bit sceptical about the whole - do a half-marathon race in week 8 of the programme thing anyway, it seemed a lot after the 10 mile at race pace a fortnight earlier. Sorry, had forgotten it's subscriber only. Basically the long runs go week 6: 10 miles @ half marathon pace (fine and gave me a real confidence boost), week 7 - 13.1 slow (also fine if boring), week 8 - 13.1 (half marathon race or race pace, aaaargh), week 9 - 13 miles slow, week 10 - 14 miles slow, week 11 - 10K ahead of taper.... But anyway, Gobi, paces are ... about 9.15-9.30 for a steady run; 7.30-7.45 for 5K pace longer intervals (1k, 1 mile), 10ish for proper long slow runs; 8.30 for tempo; ran the 10miler at 8.52 min mile quite comfortably. Although, looking back at my log it seems that I've been doing my long runs (the 10 mile time trial aside) since August at well under the 10 min mile mark, so maybe that is the answer....redouble efforts to run slowly. ps. I ran 1.56 2 years ago on a much easier 3/4 times per week plan and 1.59 with a cold this year, so I hope I'm not being too optimistic trying to get under 1.55....
The Duckinator Sep 2011 1:32pm, 26 Sep 2011 564 posts	0 The Duckinator For the record, I don't think 30mpw for a half marathon is adequate at all - at least 50 to do yourself even a small amount of justice. Gobi's right in that for a half marathon (which is almost totally aerobic) you cannot do enough running, and the more you do (even at a very easy pace) the better. I'm doing 70mpw right now for an event 12 miles shorter. The 5k times will be a byproduct of training - the miles you've put in have just allowed you to improve over all distances. The time trials the RW plans put up are outrageous. 90 mins @ HMP is massively excessive - about an hour max is enough and even then only once or twice in the entire program! I've seen RW programmes where they've suggested 15-17M runs only a few seconds per mile slower than goal race pace which is quite frankly ludicrous.
Mrs Winkle Sep 2011 1:49pm, 26 Sep 2011 5,040 posts	0 Mrs Winkle I disagree Duckinator - 50 miles a week for a half marathon seems excessive for "normal" training and ability levels. There is no point upping the miles too quickly and risking injury. I've managed to PB rather nicely at HM and marathon on not much more mileage than that (though having said that I'm now doing an average of 50 mpw for my next marathon). It's about the quality of the training as well as the quantity surely? Better to do less (but enough) miles with high quality sessions IMO. I'm surprised it advised you to do the full distance at race pace - madness.
Hendo Sep 2011 2:05pm, 26 Sep 2011 28,598 posts	0 Hendo 50 mpw to do yourself justice? What nonsense. Maybe if you're at the sharp end of the field, but ffs. Also nonsense is doing a half marathon at race pace, to train for a half marathon. What utter bullshit. #normalisation Have a look at Hal Higdon's plans. Far more realistic, and he gives explanations as to why each session is in there. halhigdon.com Good luck, anyway!