How does Garmin Connect calculate VO2 Max?
17 watchers
Jan 2021
6:10pm, 8 Jan 2021
19,187 posts
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Rosehip
ah forgot about that with benchmarks - but PB races in the past have given me 30-33 I think, and I'm a long way off PB pace for any distance. (and a minute a mile above PB weight)
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Jan 2021
9:21pm, 8 Jan 2021
32,890 posts
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SPR
Fetch - "Here's another paper that suggests that age, mass and RHR are significant predictors of VO2Max." I don't doubt that at all. It's fairly obvious from an overall population standpoint that there's going to be a correlation. What I wonder about is using that correlation at an individual level. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just not sure about it and wonder whether there's a more accurate way of doing it using the individualised data that the log contains. |
Jan 2021
12:21pm, 11 Jan 2021
13,174 posts
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larkim
I've added a data field to my watch to dislay "live" VO2Max (a nonsense, I appreciate that!). It shows a similar variation to the calculator on here, I think it is based on the same broad formula (speed, age, weight, HR, sex) with the same flaws / wide margin of error. I still think it's interesting that on those metrics I end up at the top of the error bar, though. I did do a super super slow run on Saturday that would have resulted in a calc similar to my race PB-calculated VO2Max, but it was super super slow because I was running with my better half and an offspring, and even though I'm more of a convert to easy running these days, 11m16-miling is off the charts for a recommended pace I think. |
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Jan 2021
12:38pm, 11 Jan 2021
32,909 posts
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SPR
What's live VO2 Max? Is this actually based on what Garmin use? There's a whitepaper for what Garmin do, but it's awhile since I looked at it.
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Jan 2021
12:41pm, 11 Jan 2021
13,175 posts
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larkim
I think it's broadly "I've got a steady / locked in HR and I'm travelling at a consistent speed, therefore the calculation based on your weight / sex / age is this".
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Jan 2021
12:55pm, 11 Jan 2021
13,176 posts
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larkim
I don't think it's linked to the Garmin / FirstBeat stuff though. The subtelty with which the Garmin / Firstbeat one moves suggests it is more complex (or at least, takes into account previous calculations before proposing a new one).
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Jan 2021
1:12pm, 11 Jan 2021
32,910 posts
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SPR
Well yeah I thought firstbeat was more complex but can't remember how it does it. It's possible we never see the raw number though. Part of the issue is what people are trying to calculate. Runalyze calculates effective VO2 max which isn't real VO2 Max and means everyone that run as a certain pace at X percent HR has the same VO2 max. This makes sense to me. Think this is similar to VDOT? I've never been clear on the approach Garmin take. Real VO2 max might be different as the skill of running comes into it and some have more skill so are more efficient with what they have. Not sure any protocol is ever going to be able to calculate real VO2 Max outside a lab. |
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Jan 2021
1:17pm, 11 Jan 2021
13,178 posts
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larkim
I'm pretty sold on the concept that flat out, best race pace is as good a measure of VO2Max as possible based on what I've read because it makes sense from a fuel / energy perspective (though will always ignore efficiency of running etc). That's what underpins VDOT too. I do like the firstbeat stuff in that it moves relatively predictably with overall fitness, and the movements are generally quite small. Runalyze does swing all over the place, but I rarely disagree with it in terms of if a run feels "hard" from a fitness perspective then it will be matched by a down-arrow on RunAlyze. But then their graphs tracking the average VO2Max from their per-run calculation do seems to result in a trend which matches perception of fitness too. |
Jan 2021
1:21pm, 11 Jan 2021
35,321 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
My Garmin says 50-51 Easy runs say 53 My 5 mile effort says 55 |
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Jan 2021
1:25pm, 11 Jan 2021
13,179 posts
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larkim
As with most "rule of thumb" calculators, it will work well for some and not for others. Now, if FE could import the "VO2Max from file" figures from everyone's watches he could analyse the spread of individual runs calculated vs the garmin calc and see what sort of spread of differences emerged. I'm pretty happy my VO2Max will be approximately 54-56 or so based on my PBs, and certainly won't be higher than that, but just about every run I put through this calculator comes out much higher than that for me. |
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