Heathen unbelievers - BBQ here

64 watchers
May 2014
10:19am, 30 May 2014
11,107 posts
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The Teaboy
Interesting thought Spleen. I'd guess that comes down to a general personality characteristic of being curious about a great many things - not just religion though. A need to examine things, find out the truth, learn, understand, critique and get down to the general nuts and bolts of everything.
May 2014
9:50pm, 30 May 2014
28,140 posts
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Nellers
independent.co.uk

Mother Theresa was no saint, it seems.

Except that she is a Saint now, I believe.
May 2014
10:47am, 31 May 2014
1,824 posts
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Winded
I am not aware of any modern era saint whose life is anything more than vaguely praiseworthy. In an age where it is possible to actually look at what people have done in a balanced & transparent way it seems people just aren't built for saintly lives. Many are not as bad as Mother Teresa or the popes who were recently promoted but it makes me think something along the lines of "Is that the best role model you are putting forward? Really?"

[In the late '80s I visited Mother Teresa's place in Calcutta. While lots of criticism is fair nevertheless she and her organisation accomplished a lot and especially provided hospice care for a lot of poor people in a lot of places. That costs a huge amount of money; that the organisation has not been fully audited does not necessarily mean that the cash went missing so while I agree with some criticism of her I'm not sure it is fair to make vague allegations of corruption when there may not have ben any significant diversion of funds. A lack of audited records that we would expect of similar sized organisations in this country is not evidence against her.]
SPR
May 2014
2:15pm, 31 May 2014
19,340 posts
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SPR
I've heard about Mother Teresa before so that wasn't news. That article was poor though, no detail whatsoevever.
May 2014
2:25pm, 31 May 2014
28,141 posts
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Nellers
Winded, I think the argument for and against MT is about the same as for the Catholic Church generally. There is a lot of charity work done, food distributed, care given to people who really need it and that has to be applauded.

However, by their teachings and their other activities (teaching against birth control and the emancipation of/equality for women particularly) they contribute towards the suffering that they then go on to alleviate.

Agree that this article has so little detail it gives the impression of someone throwing mud rather than of a rigorous investigation.
May 2014
9:08pm, 31 May 2014
8,695 posts
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RichHL
Just as we can make heroes out of our running friends, we can make saints out of them too. Nobody lives a blameless life but some people manage to live lives of conspicuous virtue overall. Whether they can intercede for us is another matter altogether. I strongly suspect not.
May 2014
9:23pm, 31 May 2014
28,144 posts
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Nellers
The point for me though, Rich, is that MT prevented people doing things that would have improved their lives and the lives of others because of her religious dogma. I don't know how you balance the 2 but I don't think she's someone who is worthy of any kind of hero-worship.
Jun 2014
9:24am, 1 Jun 2014
8,696 posts
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RichHL
I'm thinking more of all the saints around us all the time who receive no public acclaim but whose works of kindness make life better. Those are our everyday saints. Some of them are religious and others aren't but what they do is set the example that the Church claims for the saints. When we make heroes of our friends, we see them in the same light as Mo or Paula and their smaller achievements have greater significance for us because they're nearer. When we make saints of our friends the same thing happens for us spiritually.

For example, Saint Nellers is an inspirational figure who has an ability to guide and help others. He provides a true example of fortitude in suffering through an illness, one of the traditional paths to canonisation. See? You don't need famous figures for inspiration just proper friends.

I never really understood the fascination with saints when I was growing up. Too many of them were so far removed from my experience. I always preferred the example of my parish priest who lived a quiet life, preached excellent and short sermons and got on with the business of being a good man. My mother lived a religious life and didn't get hung up on the details. She knew what was right and lived by that and I try to live up to her example.

I know that there are secular saints too, people without any particular spiritual life or aspirations but who just get on with being decent human beings without fuss or self-regard. They may not think of themselves as saints or heroes but they are worthy of emulation.
Jun 2014
9:29am, 1 Jun 2014
20,994 posts
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Johnny Blaze
Nobody's perfect, although the media seems to be stuffed with people who want us to think they are. Step forward St Bono, St Brigstocke, St Hardy, St Bragg of burton Bradstock etc etc.

The Ghost Rider knows that all people have secrets. Secrets and lies!
Jun 2014
10:49am, 1 Jun 2014
10,612 posts
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Argie
Saints have to perform miracles not just not be a wanker.

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