Heart rate

1 lurker | 298 watchers
SPR
SPR
Sep 2020
12:27pm, 7 Sep 2020
31,203 posts
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SPR
Because it's not a good measure of easy if it allows you to exceed well established parameters that are not easy.
J2R
J2R
Sep 2020
12:28pm, 7 Sep 2020
2,984 posts
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J2R
OK, Brunski, I see where you're coming from. I don't think it's a case of being able to talk or not, it's the ease with which you can talk, and maybe the point where that is exceeded is not so clear cut for some people.
Dvorak
Dvorak
Sep 2020
12:50pm, 7 Sep 2020
20,673 posts
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Dvorak
Evidence from me and afaik loads of people is that "talk test" level is generally above 70% WHR, sometimes well above. I thought there was consensus about fifty pages back that for most, "natural" talky pace was a notch or two above easy run pace for hr training.

I was wishing as I ran on Saturday that I was getting hr data (the sensor has gone missing. It'll be there somewhere. Lots of things are "there somewhere" :-/ ). Running an actual parkrun course, pretty flat, and effectively pacing a friend round, a bit slower than I could have gone. 12:30 or slower miles in the main. Felt very very easy. Breathing raised a little so presumably past VT1 - somewhere about walking up a moderate hill level.
larkim
larkim
Sep 2020
1:43pm, 7 Sep 2020
11,838 posts
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larkim
Interesting (to me) that after doing the 5x1min upill maxHR testing a couple of months ago, and topping out at 178, I was doing intervals last week and topped out slightly higher - just the one beat at 179, but consistently reported. Of course, that probably means I was running too hard and pushing too hard at intervals. But that's a different problem.

fetcheveryone.com/t-18020066
Brunski
Brunski
Sep 2020
1:47pm, 7 Sep 2020
1,728 posts
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Brunski
I definitely get what you're saying J2R, it's similar to perceived effort with easy running being light or moderatively light effort but these are more subjective for me than the %ages of heart rate using reliable heart rate zones and good monitoring equipment.

I like to use a combination of lots of these triggers in my training, knowing how my breathing changes, percieved effort, etc. and one of my favourite 'games' when running is to guess my HR at any point during a RUN before looking at my watch. I'm pretty good at guessing, usually within 2 or 3 beats, but sometimes I get a surprise (good or bad).
Brunski
Brunski
Sep 2020
1:47pm, 7 Sep 2020
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Brunski
*not sure why my phone capitalised 'run' sorry, not shouting :-)
SPR
SPR
Sep 2020
1:54pm, 7 Sep 2020
31,209 posts
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SPR
I think you can dial in perceived effort and all these other cues to understand how easy feels. My watch is usually just a recorder while I'm running, unless I'm doing sessions targeting a specific pace.

The key is for pace not to be a concern.
J2R
J2R
Sep 2020
2:33pm, 7 Sep 2020
2,988 posts
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J2R
Brunski, we know, you wanted to emphasis that you're a real RUNNER, not a JOGGER. :)

SPR, I think that sums it up nicely: the key is for pace not to be a concern.

One of the problems with the whole 'easy' thing, why it's necessary to have something like breathing or heart rate as an independent validation of 'easy', is that there is a kind of competitive machismo in so many runners (I don't regard myself as wholly immune) which leads them to do a tough workout/race whatever and claim, to themselves as much as others, to have found it 'easy' - "I just ran 10 miles in 55 minutes, it was easy". But easy doesn't mean sustainable, survivable.

A good definition of an easy workout I read a while back is one where, having got back, you could easily just go out and repeat without any difficulty.
SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss)
SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss)
Sep 2020
6:04pm, 7 Sep 2020
466 posts
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SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss)
"the key is for pace not to be a concern" Yep

I think most recreational runners have unconsciously linked their habitual pace with the term 'easy'. In other words, because I run this pace all the time, it must be classed as easy.

Also, runners instinctively like to finish a session feeling they've had 'a decent workout', which means pushing it even ever so slightly
SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss)
SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss)
Sep 2020
6:06pm, 7 Sep 2020
467 posts
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SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss)
...basically, I agree with JR2 :-)

About This Thread

Maintained by Elderberry
Everything you need to know about training with a heart rate monitor. Remember the motto "I can maintain a fast pace over the race distance because I am an Endurance God". Mind the trap door....

Gobi lurks here, but for his advice you must first speak his name. Ask and you shall receive.

A quote:

"The area between the top of the aerobic threshold and anaerobic threshold is somewhat of a no mans land of fitness. It is a mix of aerobic and anaerobic states. For the amount of effort the athlete puts forth, not a whole lot of fitness is produced. It does not train the aerobic or anaerobic energy system to a high degree. This area does have its place in training; it is just not in base season. Unfortunately this area is where I find a lot of athletes spending the majority of their seasons, which retards aerobic development. The athletes heart rate shoots up to this zone with little power or speed being produced when it gets there." Matt Russ, US International Coach

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