Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training (F.I.R.S.T.) acolytes!
118 watchers
Aug 2010
12:02pm, 17 Aug 2010
34,755 posts
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GregP
Apologies for going over old ground, but... I got to this whole business via a different route to most of you, I suspect , what with being a ho-hum triathlete rather than a super speedy road runner. I spotted the Hal Higdon 'vets & clydesdales' plan that offered to get me round a Spring marathon faster than I'd gone before without having to start the new triathlon season wondering which end of my bike to sit on and whether a wetsuit zips up the front or the back... It worked, too. As you were. I'll go back to lurking and learning. |
Aug 2010
12:24pm, 17 Aug 2010
1,327 posts
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lunaman
Good point runner duck re intervals. Happy - happy to be linked, if you think it's useful. There are so many factors on the day in a marathon that it's hard to tell isn't it? Hard to know what to put the mara result down to - tiredness from a recent long hard run, not enough conditioning? But, at the end of the day, I still beat the time from the previous year when I was running 5-6 days, so at the very least I don't think I was in a worse condition! So maybe I just needed a touch more exercise, it'd be interesting to compare time spent exercising. GregP - I understand bike saddles now, but wet suits? help! |
Aug 2010
1:15pm, 17 Aug 2010
6,462 posts
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Boab
I think regardless if which training approach you take up for targetting a marathon the single most important 'session' is the long run. IMO, if you run 7 days a week only covering a max of 10 miles in any one run, you are not going to be better prepared for a marathon that someone who trains 3 times a week and runs 20+miles every Sunday. This is a generalisation as there are ALWAYS excpetions to the rule.
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Aug 2010
1:22pm, 17 Aug 2010
10,326 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Wet suits for open water swim luna. Either that or Grep is a neopren fetishist!  rd - good point, I'm sure intervals do still give aerobic benefit. And a bit of an epiphany, chatting with another guy at a lunch time session just now, which you have also just suggested too - why not just double (or triple?! :-O) up the gym sessions? e.g. Mon our gym has spin then circuits. I said a big "Respek" to one of theh girls in the spin class who went on to the circuits straight after last night, but dismissed it as gym bunny madness. But why not? Longer session (maybe do slightly less intensely) and hopefully get strength, aerobic and maybe even some endurance benefit? Hmmm. luna - true, the marathon comparison is hard because of other factors: mental, weather, illness etc. And yes you did PB and got a great time. But you were/should (and will, I'm sure) be doing 3.0x or sub 3, so how to get there? You have moved to hybrid 5 days running (I believe) so you obv (?) feel that just 3 or 4 days, even with lots of cross/bike isn't the best mix? Grep - you are most welcome here, with your triathlete perspective. However (as is your wont!) I don't quite understand what you are saying! You did a Hal Higdon - HH are normally 5 running day plans (with the rest days allowing easy/recovery runs too, you could even say it is a 6 or 7 day plan) so how did you still do your bike and swim training? And are you also saying that your "normal" triathlon training doesn't give you your best running performance (not too surprising, I guess)? But if so, what is the delta between your "normal" tri training and say a Hal Higdon based one (but presumably even with HH, you were still doign your bike n swim?) Interesting stuff all. Thanks. :-)G |
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Aug 2010
1:25pm, 17 Aug 2010
10,327 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Boab, thanks for that. However, the Furman plans absolutely DO include the LSR as one of the key runs. Individual run length is NOT sacrificed in Furman. But overall quantity of runs and therefore total mileage are reduced. And this is the gap I'm trying to understand and work out how best to fill. :-)G
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Aug 2010
1:31pm, 17 Aug 2010
34,777 posts
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GregP
Most triathlons in the UK (if you exclude pool based events) involve the use of a wetsuit, Lunaman - one more thing to buy/go wrong/refuse to come off. The HH plan was, IIRC, only three days a week - typically a long run, a medium run and a tempo of some sort. Here it is: halhigdon.com |
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Aug 2010
1:54pm, 17 Aug 2010
10,328 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Ah, that's an unusual variation on Hal Higdon. Good use of the word "Senior"! And can you confirm Grep, how much run, swim or anything else did you do around those 3 runs? Ta. :-)G |
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Aug 2010
1:59pm, 17 Aug 2010
34,789 posts
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GregP
Average something like 1 mile swim, 40 miles bike - using my '4 part' formula that would be, say, another 14 miles running equivalent.
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Aug 2010
2:03pm, 17 Aug 2010
8,866 posts
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macca53
Am I paraphrasing too much to think like this: a) run three times a week, one long run, one tempo, one track (one endurance and two "quality") b) do other stuff 3 or 4 times a week e.g. swim twice and bike twice how close would that be (like :)G said) to a "typical" tri week? And how long does a swim or bike session need to be to derive the same fitness benefit as a run? |
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Aug 2010
2:07pm, 17 Aug 2010
34,792 posts
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GregP
There's diminishing returns on the swim - the golf analogy comes into play here - there's no point in doing huge swim volume with bad technique. A 'typical' tri week (at least for me - volumes vary hugely) would be 2 miles swim, 50 miles bike, 15 miles run, those sort of numbers. |
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