Dear Scottish Fetchies
66 watchers
May 2021
5:11pm, 9 May 2021
19,667 posts
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Bazoaxe
He won’t deny it and will just wait to be asked
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May 2021
12:03am, 10 May 2021
3,150 posts
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Dave W
Boris may calculate that retaining the Union would win in a referendum. But, Tory PM's have a history of being pretty shite at guessing which way a referendum would go. Ask "Call me Dave" Cameron. His idiocy (and that of the right wing of his party) got us into this mess in the first place. If the UK was still in the EU, there'd be no way an independence vote would win. What a dickhead. |
May 2021
1:04am, 10 May 2021
8,504 posts
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Too Much Water
I’m not sure you can really claim that given the vote in 2014 was fairly close already and this is prior to Brexit. And surely voting Yes was a de facto vote for leaving the EU even if temporarily. |
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May 2021
7:31am, 10 May 2021
19,668 posts
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Bazoaxe
55/45 wasnt very close and I think buoyed by that success Cameron thought he would pull off the same trick again. What a fool. TMW, you are right about the vote for yes and the EU. There is a sizeable minority in the SNP who would not want to rejoin the EU, but they keep that to themselves for the time being I actually see a lot of logic in the leave UK & EU position |
May 2021
7:37am, 10 May 2021
2,637 posts
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HappyTimes
Would you jump at a 55/45 chance of success on say a major operation Baz? I think it's pretty close. |
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May 2021
7:42am, 10 May 2021
2,386 posts
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JRitchie
Though I am strong unionist TMW, I do recognise the EU referendum was sufficiently ground moving to change the landscape and sets aside the argument that 2014 is a settled position for a generation. The clear line I remember being given was that no was the only way to guarantee staying in the EU. Therein lies the problem. |
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May 2021
8:30am, 10 May 2021
19,669 posts
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Bazoaxe
HT - an interesting take and a question that can only be answered if you know the consequences either way. i.e. if I knew I would die pretty soon, but could have an Op that was 55/45 I would go for it. If instead the Op might bring a threat of death to resolve a non life threatening issue, then not. JR - my recollection of the EU question is slightly different. Back in 2014 we knew Cameron was talking about an EU referendum and so it was a possibility. I dont recall the 'guarantee' case but I know its widely reported by the SNP as being the case and my memory my just have blanked that out. Putting that aside though, I agree that brexit has changed the landscape and with Thursdays vote, it is now legitimate to seek a 2nd referendum. I fear though we will now have a prolonged period of posturing (just listen to Keith Brown - its started already !) but no action (listen to Sturgeon). At the same time the UK Gov clearly have softened their position as they know the impact their hardline stance has and look to be trying to make a positive case for a change. I watched Marr last night and much as I dislike them both, I did like a lot of what Gove and Sturgeon were saying. |
May 2021
9:04am, 10 May 2021
38,630 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Baz, I agree, it's pretty much a 50/50 split (or possibly 30 / 30 of want independence vs want the union, with a possible majority of "really don't give a stuff and can we please just get on with the rest of life"?!) So what do we do about it? How do you resolve a country that has an even split for and against something that really is a binary decision? Or is it? This is where my question about DevoMax and UK electoral reforms come in. If you could get UK to consider a truly federal system (like Germany, or even the US in some senses) where each jurisdiction has significant power over laws and finances, then maybe that would quieten the demand for independence? And if you could elect a UK gov't that needed to take into account the will of all the people - a PR system, leading to coalition governments, where perhaps a Scottish party and a Welsh party was in coalition or was a partner with a larger party etc. The problem is, UK government doesn't want Scotland to make a major constitutional change, but it won't look at the UK's need for reform either. If UK would accept that Scottish independence is at least part (and possibly the major part) the fault of problems in the UK constitution, then it, UK, could help to fix the problem. And there's a flying pig...  G
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May 2021
9:10am, 10 May 2021
38,631 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Gonna post this one on Politics, because it's about UK politics, not just Scotland...
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May 2021
9:28am, 10 May 2021
19,670 posts
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Bazoaxe
I think you are spot on HG. I did sense a different view from the UK Government starting yesterday and hopefully we do start to see a change in their position. If we dont independence is inevitable. I really hope we have a proper debate on the union and independence and Sturgeon seemed to indicate when the time is right she will prepare a transparent white paper which calls out the approach and will deal with the risks and how they will be dealt with. For now lets get on with sorting out Covid and the recovery and then see what Sturgeon brings forward in due course. As an aside, my 87yo MiL was delighted with the outcome and her main concern was for the poor Queenie who MiL worried had concerns over her job security. There was a whole debate there that I wasnt going to get into with her. |
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