Dear Scottish Fetchies
66 watchers
Jan 2021
3:27pm, 24 Jan 2021
1,943 posts
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Surelynot
The vote in May will be the one that counts. All else is open to interpretation.
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Jan 2021
3:45pm, 24 Jan 2021
18,694 posts
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Bazoaxe
The vote in may is for holyrood though so doesn’t really count. It might mean the Snp believe they have a mandate though for another independence vote.
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Jan 2021
9:24pm, 24 Jan 2021
21,866 posts
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Dvorak
I think that the Holyrood election is the real one - Westminster is a secondary consideration. Although my opinion is - ca' canny. On another tack, who else has had their hair cut by their MP? (Or MSP?) |
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Jan 2021
11:39pm, 24 Jan 2021
1,944 posts
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Surelynot
Bazo - why does the Holyrood vote not count?
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Jan 2021
12:19am, 25 Jan 2021
277 posts
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Joophy
Dvorak, I'm not aware of any local politicians offering a barber service, but my wife has booked a haircut for an MSP, does that count?
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Jan 2021
9:00am, 25 Jan 2021
18,699 posts
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Bazoaxe
SN, Holyrood's purpose is to govern on devolved matters and the constitution is not devolved. May's election should not be about Independence. That though is a mere technical point that will have no bearing. That said, it looks clear that there will be a majority that vote for Independence parties and as such Boris is going to have a decision to make. He could and probably wants to say no. However that doesnt match up with his approach to Brexit. He isnt though known for his integrity so that may not bother him. The biggest issue with saying no is that this will just harden the support for Independence. He could like Cameron say yes. Cameron thought it would be an easy vote to win and the question would go away. Although in the end they had to work harder than anticipated it was a clear answer. However the issues in Scottish politics was exposed and we saw the support for Independence grow. I think its possible that Boris might consider a new vote with caveats such as turnout, such as 60 % of voters in favour, or 50% eligible voters in favour or a confirmatory referendum and also commitment that this is it for lets say 25 years. He may also dig his heels in on the voter age. I remain convinced that Independence will be a bad outcome for Scotland and we are at real risk, like Brexit, of sleepwalking into that just because we dont like the Tory Government. I am now however pretty certain that Independence is going to happen as there has been an abject failure of the main parties in England and their Scottish counterparts to have any idea how to make clear the benefits of being part of the union. I thought there was good coverage in the Sunday Times yesterday and there was also a piece on the economics of independence which I would like to see properly scrutinised and have sight of the SNPs plan on this before we get anywhere near making a choice. |
Jan 2021
9:25am, 25 Jan 2021
37,242 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
What SNP are doing is pretty up front though Bazo, isn't it? By clearly saying, "If you vote SNP at the Scottish elections, we are interpreting it as support for not just our governance of Scotland, but of our call for Independence and a referendum. If you don't want an Indy Ref, don't vote SNP." That means all the other parties could say "Vote for anyone but not SNP, otherwise you are voting for an IndyRef". Then if there was strong sentiment against IndyRef, the SNP should be absolutely decimated in the polls. But if they are not, then it indicates a strong mandate for another IndyRef. The underhand thing for the SNP would be to say "Just support us in how we govern Scotland on devolved matters." Then to claim that if they get a large majority that it is a mandate for another IndyRef. It wouldn't be. Anyhoo, as I've said before, I think there is a 52/48 support for Scottish Independence. And though I'm one of them, I don't think we should have another referendum until it's 60 / 40. Otherwise it's too divisive. Happy Monday eveyrone.  G
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Jan 2021
10:19am, 25 Jan 2021
1,946 posts
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Surelynot
Baz - if Holyrood has no right to call a vote on constitutional matters - and I understand this is by no means legally clear - what democratic avenue does Scotland have for Independence?
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Jan 2021
10:40am, 25 Jan 2021
25,859 posts
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JulesR
The only 2 arguments I ever hear against Scotland not having another referendum are: 1. You’ve had your vote and it was decisive. 2. Salmond & Sturgeon said ‘it was once in a generation’ so that’s it (that definitely wasn’t anywhere in the Edinburgh Agreement) Which brings us back to Surelynot’s question above - if the country clearly wants another Indyref (see continuous polls saying we do), what democratic avenue is there if not through Holyrood? My view is that Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t want another Indyref & she won’t be in charge much longer, but the democratic case for a vote in my view remains compelling. |
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Jan 2021
10:46am, 25 Jan 2021
37,245 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
What do you think is happening to Sturgeon as leader Jules? Is she under pressure to resign? Over what issue? Not being pro Indy enough? Or the cock up over Salmond investigation (which I think is so unfair - some mistakes on a completely new process, which was to investigate Salmond's alleged sleaze, and then he somehow makes her look bad over it. Political game playing.) I think she's a great leader. Like Jacinda Ardern or Angela Merkl. Intelligent, empathetic, principled (mostly, though everyone can make a mistake). Maybe not terribly charismatic. But we don't need characters and clowns as leaders. We need serious, hard working, diligent professionals. |
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