Daniels Running Formula. The Definitive Wire.

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Jan 2018
3:56pm, 27 Jan 2018
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GregP
Depends on Sue's dad, mate - we're doing a lot of backward and forward to Southampton at the moment, and weekends at home (like this one) are rare and precious.
Jan 2018
4:26pm, 27 Jan 2018
32,226 posts
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Nellers
Fair enough, mate. Well if circumstances open a window for you the offer of a lift stands.
Jan 2018
6:18am, 28 Jan 2018
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GregP
Appreciate it. Under normal circumstances I’d love to go, obvs.
Aug 2020
1:00pm, 9 Aug 2020
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Kieren
I thought I'd bump this rather than create a new thread. Maybe some of the new runners or re-runners might also get some value from Daniel's Running Formula.

My thoughts on my first Daniel's Plan

The 3rd edition of the book "Daniel's Running Formula" is (according to reviews) a bit easier to understand than the earlier versions. There is the vdot training pace calculator on the runsmart webpage here: runsmartproject.com

What I did:
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I am just completing my first plan from the book - the "red" general fitness plan. I would class this as a plan suitable for a beginner or returner who is a little bit beyond brand new. The white plan contains run / walk stages if you need to start on something less demanding.

Red plan is a 16 week plan made up of 4x 4 week training blocks with the 3rd block being the hardest. I suppose the 1st 8 weeks are preparing you for that?

With the aid of a recent 5K time and the calculator, I was able to plan all the workouts on garmin connect and send the to my watch which then tells me how long to run at what pace etc. Once the set up was done, it took a lot of pain out of planning.

Despite that, I did struggle with some of the tables on the book - it is not always clear if Daniels means minutes / miles / KM when he says to run X at Y effort. For the record, unless he states KM, it is always Miles. Other than that, I had to flick through the book to find out what "hard" pace is, so notes on a bookmark are recommended it you buy the book.

Results:
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I'm on week 15 or 16 and my 5K time has reduced from 23:08 to 22:26 (in week 13). At my pace, my volume on this plan is about 45KM per week. I have been replacing the 2nd Quality (interval) session with a weekly 5K time trial league my club was running, so slightly off plan. The last 2 weeks have been too hot (35 degrees) to run at pace. I think I am probably capable of about 21:55 right now.

Injury
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I remained injury free following the plan. Before this I had run about 3x a week in the 3 months before and before that I had not run at a frequency for over 5 years.

I did pick up niggles, which I think are down to be, not the plan. The important part for me was that despite being an annoyance, they did not derail my running. Sometimes I would take an extra rest day or drop / replace a hard run.

1. Satorious (inner thigh) strain. I picked this up doing strides on a slight declining path. It did not stop me running but took ages to recover. Daniels adds strides to the end of easy runs and my route was not optimal - user error. I changed the route so that I could do the strides on flat grass which seems perfect so far.

2. Soleus / shin. This came after the satorius strain on the opposite leg. Maybe as a result of gait change due to that niggle or maybe just because I know I have weak ankles and propensity to pick up injuries there. The niggle would fade after 5 - 10 minutes warm up and I have added strength drills which are reducing the warmup time for the niggle.
JCB
Aug 2020
6:30am, 10 Aug 2020
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JCB
Good going Kieren!
Aug 2020
6:51pm, 14 Aug 2020
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Kieren
Thanks JCB

So I've just finished 16 weeks on the red plan as noted above. The plan has 2 quality days not including the long run. The quality days are interval based and I replaced the 2nd one with a 5KM time trial that my club was running.

I didn't run a benchmark run at the start of the plan but did 3 weeks before and took roughly 1:37 off my 5K and lost 6KG on the scales. I didn't change my diet.

19 weeks ago (before the plan)
April 4
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weight = about 75kg / 24% BF
5K = 23:12

June 5
weight 76kg
5K = 23:08

July 10
weight 71.5kg
5K = 22:20

July 24
weight = 70kg

5K = 22:16

August 14
weight 69.6kg
5K = 21:35
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I thought the progress was slowing down in July but then got a big jump at the end. The last run was a cool day following about 10 days of 30+ degree running.

I enjoyed the red plan & plan to do the blue plan next.
JCB
Aug 2020
3:06pm, 19 Aug 2020
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JCB
That’s a great outcome and progression! 🏆
Aug 2020
3:08pm, 19 Aug 2020
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GregP
Top stuff, and well done for bumping the thread.
Aug 2020
7:00pm, 19 Aug 2020
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Battlecat
Yes. Nice one.

I played about with the tables for the first time in ages the other day. Might revisit the book :-)
Aug 2020
11:47am, 20 Aug 2020
4,002 posts
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Kieren
This thread does seem to get a resurgence every 2 years it seems but never gains much traction. From what I understand, JD is one of the better know coaching manuals but perhaps on Fetch people gravitate more to Hal Higdon P&D etc.

@GregP - did you do Red Plan? I'm catching up from the start of the thead in 2011 and am currently at page 27 in 2012 - it seems a few people are starting with Red.

@Battlecat - did you follow a plan before and have any thoughts? Assuming you have now gone back to the book, did you get anything you might apply now?

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At the moment there is another good thread on Polarised Training that I like to read. So far I have found the red plan from JD to be pretty much as defined in that method with 80% of the time easy and 20% hard. I am in week 1 of Blue plan now and expect that to be broadly the same.

Blue introduced 400m repeats with jog recovery instead of rest! However I found these to much easier than intervals on the Red plan. I tended to dread the interval sessions a bit.

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I'm always keen to hear how people got on with a plan, which is why I posted my progress & weight. The weight loss alone will make me faster but was also a result of the plan.

There are some case studies of both 'normal' people and super-adapters in another book I have by David Chalfen and I also found examples on the 5Krunner web site where a senior male improved twice as much as me over roughly the same period but was 10 years my junior.

The first book I ever bough on running was Advanced Marathoning by P&D around the time of Berlin Marathon about 13 years ago I think. That was 100% fueled by testimonials or case studies from Fetchies and people at my club who were stuck at a time and then managed to smash the plateau based on the book.

I do find testimonials / case studies useful on forums and books but also do realise you can't base your expectations from someone elses results.

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I can't remember what got me on to Jack Daniels - I think it was finding that linked spreadsheet via Joe Friel's postings or perhaps this thread. (spreadsheet linked on attackpoint in thread description pane)

About This Thread

Maintained by GregP
Which it is the Daniels thread of the world.

Like the old 'definitive' wire, only better. And less dead.

New (as at 21/06/21) link to all the calculators a Fetchie can dream of: runsmartproject.com

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