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Base building - a question for Gobi really!

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Feb 2013
4:02pm, 4 Feb 2013
4307 posts
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rf_fozzy
But that would then takes my mileage a bit high - I don't want to be doing more than 60-70miles per week, because I know that beyond this, my legs start to complain. Too many miles on tarmac, see?!
Feb 2013
4:04pm, 4 Feb 2013
4308 posts
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rf_fozzy
Dave - want to keep it simple - and not carry too many clothes with me (nowhere to leave stuff at work), plus I'm not comfortable leaving my bike here.

I could quite easily make one of the runs into work or back home a bit longer (say 6-7mi), but it's going to be difficult to make it excessively longer than that unfortunately.

I could do that twice a week (i.e. a 6/7 and a 4) and then add the other sessions in the evenings around them.
Feb 2013
6:48pm, 4 Feb 2013
2869 posts
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daviec
It's not going to do any harm doing the commute, just keep them easy. It would definitely help if you made one of the runs a wee bit longer (6 to 8 miles) and maybe even once/twice a week do it a wee bit steadier than normal.

I don't agree that speed work needs to be involved in base. It actually has no place in base building at all. I don't do any intervals or tempo, or fartleks during base. I do the occasional XC race, and if you really must mix it up a bit try adding a set of 6 to 10 x 100m strides on the end of an easy run. Other than that you'll notice that running at all speeds becomes easier as your base gets better.

60 to 70 miles will build a good base. You might find that if you can maintain it for a while you'll be able to go a bit further.
Feb 2013
8:18pm, 4 Feb 2013
3597 posts
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Kieren
After re-reading - I dont know the answer. Consistancy is probably the key.

All the running coaches that have produced champions and have had their methods go down in history have done so because they go against the grain, against the current thinking. For those with short term memories, they are mavericks.

For those who either remember or know of other coaches, every method seems to last to years or so, then it will be something like intervals are better or volume is better.

From my limited experience (I've always been a sporadic runner at best) I feel I have got the most benefit form tempo runs of about 6 miles and steady runs between 15 - 20 miles. According to my logs, that would be maybe 2 runs a week, sometimes one, sometimes 3. Tempos battered my legs - looking back I wonder if I would have seen more benefit / less pain with intervals? It doesn't really matter now as my ankle can't tolerate volume or intensity.
Feb 2013
9:55pm, 4 Feb 2013
2870 posts
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daviec
I disagree - the famous coaches go down in history because their methods endure over time. They may be developed and refined but the core principles stay the same. There are plenty of mavericks who go against the grain, but time weeds out the bullshit and leaves the simplicity of training intact. Fozzy is wanting to build base for an endurance event. I'm sorry but whilst doing intervals and tempo might work for those that don't do much running (because anything is better than nothing) he needs to maintain high mileage and build his aerobic ability. That means lots of running at an easy effort and occasional steadier efforts to help push things along. The intervals/tempo/fartlek and such like can come much nearer his race when he's ready for them. He quite clearly asked if what he has planned would be good for building base. I think it would within the limitations of using his short commute I think he'd find it works well. It's base training - no intervals - no tempo. As many easy miles as you can do and a couple of sessions where you push on a bit. It really is that "easy".
Feb 2013
10:36pm, 4 Feb 2013
50247 posts
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Gobi
Fozzy - yes you can use the 4s, run them at slightly different paces though

Davie has spotted what you are trying to do and he has a point.

I have put some psuedo Lydiard spin on it

(not your paces, just numbers to give you an idea)

8mm AM - 8.30mm PM

8.30 mm AM - 7.45MM PM
8.30mm AM - 8.30mm PM

7.45mm AM - 8.00PM

8.30mm AM - 8.30mm PM

The important thing here is that all the paces are aerobic
Feb 2013
11:09pm, 4 Feb 2013
3600 posts
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Kieren
I wasn't recommending intervals either the point above was that (& I was bowing out for more experienced) in my limited experience, the intensity from intervals broke me - I couldn't get the volume in. On page on I mentioned time on feet and probably training fasted for the shorter commutes. To be honest, if anything, I thought that would be the one people call out.

I think frequency increases the chance of injury slightly more than duration. I don't know the answer to the suggestion here so I'll just put it out there, how about ditching one of the commute days to rest and recover and add the miles to a midweek long run?

At the moment his LSR is on Saturday.
Feb 2013
11:47pm, 4 Feb 2013
4309 posts
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rf_fozzy
Thanks Gobi.

I'll have a think abt what how I'm going to use the commute. It'll probably come down to 2 or 3 commutes a week when the bike is fixed, but it's good to know that it's of some use at least.

Kieran, no my lsr is Sundays normally. 8-10 miles isn't an lsr! It's just a longer run than my commute!

Sundays is lsr or race. This Sunday is both (as was last sat) - I'm doing a 12mi fell race, nut keeping it relatively easy.
Feb 2013
11:55pm, 4 Feb 2013
4310 posts
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rf_fozzy
You've also missed the point Kieran. At the moment I have to run to from work, so there is no option to ditch it, at least until the bike is fixed.

I wanted to see if this was just wasted miles, or if I should continue with it after I get the bike back, because it's working out that I'm doing 60+ miles a week and getting my evenings.

I will probably switch to 2 commutes, a hills/speed session and a longer, steady run an easy run and a lsr, towards the end of Feb once I've got 6-8weeks of 50+ miles in.
Feb 2013
12:09am, 5 Feb 2013
489 posts
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Canute
rff, You might find this interesting:

scienceofrunning.com

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Just wanting a quick idea of a few thoughts about base-building. Particularly since I'm doing high(...
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