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Advanced Marathoning by P&D Any tried the schedules?

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Nov 2017
8:38am, 21 Nov 2017
27,783 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
In the bank = break the bank, imho!

Good point about training to finish long runs strong - either actual progressive runs (start slow, finish fast) or just sections at target marathon pace etc. Yes, all good.

Re. cramping, in my opinion, that is always a strength issue. I had really bad cramping in marathons (still PBs, but very touch and go!) number 3 and 4. Mainly calf and even quad and ham. If you can't train more miles, or do hills, because it impairs rest of training, then strength work is the answer - calf raises, squats, single leg squats etc. Doesn't even have to be in gym, you can do them at home with just body weight.

The P&D book has a whole section on strength and condition. The section we all ignore! :-) G
Nov 2017
8:45am, 21 Nov 2017
3,366 posts
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larkim
Yep, I completely ignored the strength & conditioning sections.

Have a think about fuelling though - I came to the conclusion, having read around a bit, that making an effort to top up fuels through whatever means works for you (I used gels) in the early miles was a good way of reducing the likelihood of a bonk later on as there seemed to be some good advice that your stomach reduces its capacity to absorb the sugars you're putting down you gullet as the rest of your body starts to feel the strain. Getting them down early before your stomach even knows there's something strenuous going on means the sugars have a better change of getting into your muscles for use during the marathon.

Whilst there might be a "brain shot" of motivation and energy taking a gel at 20 miles in, the reality is that that sugar stands next to no chance of being available to be used for running, certainly not when compared to a gel taken at 3 miles in.
Nov 2017
8:56am, 21 Nov 2017
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Slowkentrunner
Thanks Larkim, regarding gels i take one every 4 miles starting at mile 4 with a electrolyte gel at mile 16 and a caffeine gel at mile 20. i'm 84kg and that sort of works for me, i used to have one every 3 miles in my earlier marathons but found that resulted in feeling really bloated at the end.

Regarding strength training, i've already started doing a few including spinning classes to help resolve my knee issues and as part of my base training before i start the P&D plan in Dec.
Nov 2017
9:23am, 21 Nov 2017
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HappyG(rrr)
Sounds good to me skr.

Larks, if I can make a suggestion about strength (and don't take this the wrong way pls!) - you are only just starting on marathons. Sooo... limiting factor for you was mostly aerobic. You did great training to be in good shape to keep going at MP for 3+ hours. However, your legs were probably not working "that hard". As evidenced by your half now (and probably your 5K / 10K too).

So in future marathon cycles, as you push harder, your legs will be closer to their strength limit. And that is when cramp can strike, in my experience. Solution is so easy. Just toughen up the legs a bit - some calf raises, single leg squats, lunges etc. Also helps to keep injuries at bay, as you build up your pace in training and in racing.

Just a suggestion. Cheers, :-) G
Jun 2018
1:19pm, 25 Jun 2018
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fetcheveryone
Just resurrecting this thread, as I'll be giving it a mention in this week's email.

And... I have a question about strides.

The plan for this week says I should do 8 miles with 10 x 100m strides. Assuming a warm up and cool down of a couple of miles each, that leaves me a four mile window in the middle for these. I've seen it suggested that I should 'wait until recovered' between each one.

Is it usual to spread them out over the four miles, or do the recoveries tend to be quite a bit shorter? Also, I'm thinking that instead of 100m, I might go for 20-25s efforts, just to make them a bit easier to measure.
Jun 2018
1:47pm, 25 Jun 2018
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StuH
The strides seem to be a common question. Apparently Pfitzinger discusses this in a Marathon Talk interview he did a while back, I keep meaning to go back to it but haven't got around to it yet.
Jun 2018
1:52pm, 25 Jun 2018
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StuH
Episode 207 - 25/12/13
Jun 2018
2:15pm, 25 Jun 2018
2,327 posts
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StuH
fetcheveryone.com/forum__3267__6774__the_sub_315_marathon_thread
Jun 2018
2:27pm, 25 Jun 2018
19,526 posts
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fetcheveryone
Thanks Stu, that's handy.
Jun 2018
9:49am, 26 Jun 2018
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Shortcut Cam
Forgot about this thread. Thanks Fetch. I followed the up to 55/wk it as best I could and beat my long standing PB for a new one at Manchester in April.

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