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Advanced Marathoning by P&D Any tried the schedules?

1 lurker | 86 watchers
Jul 2008
9:26am, 1 Jul 2008
2,610 posts
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BlueWombat
ok, using a modified 18 week 70 mile plan for abindgon ... but starting at the 15 weeks before race week point (16 week schedule)
Jul 2008
9:36am, 1 Jul 2008
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Welcome BlueWombat - think I am using the same plan not for Abingdon though
Jul 2008
9:55am, 1 Jul 2008
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Day one of 12wk plan yesterday (rest day - done!) - day 2 meant to be a 8m gen aerobic run - hoping to do this lunchtime - going off HRM - aiming for around the 75%maxWHR level.
Aug 2008
9:06pm, 17 Aug 2008
5,404 posts
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GregP
Jacobi/Guys - having had the book for 8 months without opening it (what with it being tri season and all), I now find that it wants me to do long runs at 65-78% WHR.

Sorry if this is going over old ground, but isn't that, well, high?
Aug 2008
9:51pm, 17 Aug 2008
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Red Tomato
I think the heart rate guys say it is acceptable to go up to 75% for long runs as I think it allows for cardiac drift which often happens towards the end of a long run. personally trying to keep my heart rate under 70% for the whole of a long run used to make me so anxious I think it was higher because of that.
Aug 2008
9:04am, 18 Aug 2008
2,142 posts
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Keefy Beefy
I don't follow HR training but the pace descriptions for long runs were fast to me. If you plan 7:15/mile for the marathon, they recommend starting the LSR around 8:40 pace and working up to around 8:00/mile by the final 5M miles.
Aug 2008
9:12am, 18 Aug 2008
14,878 posts
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IMHO progressive paced runs are good where you start off slow and gradually build so that the last 5 miles may even be done at target pace. However, I don't think all of your long runs should be done like that cos you will end up knackered.

What has already been said WRT other long runs is true whether you use heart rate or perceived effort or pace. Nice and easy basically. Again not nice and easy ALL the time but you need some nice and easy comes in to build endurance.

All of the above is purely taken from my limited experience, make of it what you will :-)
Aug 2008
9:14am, 18 Aug 2008
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Maybe I should answer the question too eh? :-)

I have never used a full P&D schedule but I have been using elements of their training for most of the year to good effect. I don't have a plan I just do running :-)
Aug 2008
9:15am, 18 Aug 2008
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Right, well I don't use heart rate - I tend to use planned marathon pace - 10-20% (say for a 18 mile run)

so first 5 miles is at an easier warm up pace for me around 9:00-9:30
then from 5 miles onwards I aim for around 8:40-8:20 per mile (marathon pace +10%)

since 3:25 = 7:49 per mile, 20% slower is 9:22 and 10% slower 8:35
3:20 is 7:38 and 10% slower 8:23

Hence around 8:40-8:20 is around marathon pace +10% for a 3:25-3:20 finish
I am aiming for sub 3:30 so the pace is slightly faster than that.

I would also add the following things I have found:
- most weeks I can manage the above pacing, when fairly fresh but other weeks I have had to go easier, I have noticed that as the training has progressed I have felt stronger towards the end of the long (18+) runs, whereas when I first started doing them I really slowed towards the end.
- some of the weeks ask for something like say 17 miles with 14 @ marathon pace, since I am using the 70 mpw plan, my volume is high (for me!) hence I just do the best I can maybe I only get 6ish miles at marathon pace. Saying that, some weeks I push the long run pace up to 8:15 ish if I feel good, although recently I have been more reserved (even if feeling good) since the recovery time is a good few days for me.
- For most of the other general runs the book says aim for the same pace as long runs, for me I run at silly o'clock in the morning and am doing higher volume so I am doing most of those runs at around 9:2x pace down to 8:4x for the last mile or two.

I can add more but that is all for now!
Aug 2008
9:17am, 18 Aug 2008
3,700 posts
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I think that was similar to what Ian said with regard to progression runs - took me a while to type that post though!

Progression runs are a type of training that doesn't seem to be mentioned much compared to intervals and marathon pace runs. Renato Canova focuses a lot on this type of training for marathon runners

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