The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread

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Nov 2015
6:02pm, 23 Nov 2015
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Bazoaxe
I listed to the RWR marathon talk yesterday and it seemed that this is a strategy he has always used apartfrom his painful first marathoin experience which was c 3:50 having thoughts sub 3 possible. This marathon was probably 20 years ago. Since then I think he mentioned a 3:20 using RWR then his two very near misses and his subsequent breaking of 3 hrs was when optimising the run and minimising the walk when he got a 2:58:30. Also has signifucant endurance background as an ironman triathlete. I suspecthe would sub 3 on a properly paced sub 3 anyway and in fact could probably go quite a bit faster than 3 hrs and its not the RWR that pushed him from just missing out to being succesful
Nov 2015
8:58am, 24 Nov 2015
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larkim
That's one of those unproveable hypotheses I think. It seems to stand to reason that someone who can cover 26.2 miles on foot in under 3 hours could do it in many different ways (e.g. positive split, negative split, even paced, RWR etc) but you'll never get the same person in the same condition for the same race in a repeatable form to prove it.

There was some logic in the rationale about resting muscles giving them some time to recover so they are in better shape for the end of the race, and I don't think you can underestimate the psychological impact of "10 minutes until a rest" which may work significantly for some people.

I've surprised myself in the past doing a Monaghetti fartlek how close I get to my 5k PB despite doing at least half of the 20 minute time period at an easier pace. Perhaps RWR would work for me!
Nov 2015
8:59am, 24 Nov 2015
322 posts
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larkim
And just to add, one day I'm going to test that out by running the parkrun to a Monaghette fartlek pattern - a) to confuse the other runners and b) to see how effective it might be (for me!)
Nov 2015
9:17am, 24 Nov 2015
8,184 posts
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Chrisull
Just googled Monaghetti - interesting, it's another "active recovery" workout or new interval training one that seems very popular at the moment, where you don't stop, you just slow a bit and then pick up again.

I do suspect you're right Larkim that you can shuffle the splits around and if you have the fitness and pace needed, you will succeed, BUT I would argue in a marathon late on (20 miles+), leg soreness and muscle tightness affect some people more than others. I've had races where I just can't shift my legs at the end despite feeling I had reserves in the tank, and that is the most deeply frustrating feeling in the world.
Nov 2015
9:26am, 24 Nov 2015
3,849 posts
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Jovi Runner
Chrisull - I agree re the legs. At Athens a couple of weeks back I was running down the last mile and into the stadium feeling like I wasn't even remotely tired but due to the hills (mile 5-20 is pretty much uphilll all the way) my legs were shot and I just couldn't get my legs to move any faster and was in a lot of pain. I uses the RWR strategy a lot - most specifically from miles 20-26. I don't find it slows my pace much at all and gives me a break. As mentioned above - it really is amazing how much knowing you have a short rest to "look forward to" in 8 minutes somehow makes the running easier.
Nov 2015
9:27am, 24 Nov 2015
3,850 posts
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Jovi Runner
Should say I usually do run 8 minutes walk 2 mins so although I start at 20 miles I've essentially usually done 21 before I start walking although sometimes I start the 2 mins walk at 20 miles and then run the 8 mins if that makes sense!
Nov 2015
9:51am, 24 Nov 2015
8,185 posts
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Chrisull
Jovi - interesting, I used RWR on the early part of the steep hills (miles 5 and 6) of my one and only ultra (Dartmoor Discovery - 32.5 miles) and it worked massively well, I've never tried it at marathon because walking in my head is linked to quitting and missing demanding time targets (which I didn't really have on my ultra other than get in before 5 hours). I do find on my long runs when I stop and stretch round 18-19 miles having no prior stops beforehand it refreshes my legs for a mile. I do also get irritated in races where you catch someone up who is walking and just before you reach them - they start to run and you can't catch them again.
Nov 2015
11:19am, 24 Nov 2015
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jdarun
I just find it hard to believe that such a massively unequal pacing can be as efficient as a steady run. When the Kenyans start breaking world records by doing it I'll take it more seriously.

As a get-round strategy for people who aren't up to continuous effort, of course it's a great plan.
Nov 2015
11:23am, 24 Nov 2015
478 posts
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jdarun
Oh yes, of course on steep hills walking makes sense, that's a matter of levelling out the effort though. Also, running up a sufficiently steep hill seems very inefficient to me - maybe too much bouncing? In fell races we all walk up the steepest bits - about as fast as running but a lot less effort :-)
Nov 2015
11:59am, 24 Nov 2015
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larkim
The guy on MarathonTalk was running 10mins sub-3hr pace (6:45?) and then walking for only 20s in his event where he cracked 3hrs. He did that religiously from the start up to about 18 miles (ISTR) and then from that point onwards was running at 3hr pace I think (perhaps a tad faster). So he was using it as a strategy to avoid reducing leg output in the later stages of the marathon, rather than compensating for already tired legs. He must have looked very odd for the 3hr pacing group that would have be catching him at the end of every 20s walk!

I think as a technique it falls into that category of something which would never work for an elite, but might work for the right individual at anything sub-elite level.

About This Thread

Maintained by Windsor Wool
For those who want to go sub 3.15 in a marathon and/or those that have already done it and want to give advice. Share your journey or help someone else's! here.

2024 declarations:

Milan 7/4: Charles
Manchester 14/4: allmatthew, Fergus
Rotterdam 14/4: Akie
Christchurch NZ 21/4: Mark J
London 21/4: KS, larkim
Boston UK 28/4: SJA
Copenhagen 5/5: bowman

-----------------------------
2023 sub 3:15s:

Bowman: 3:06:57 (Växjö), 3:09 (Jönköping)
charlesvdw: 3:03:33 (Berlin), 3:07:55 (London)
chrismean: 3:12:45 (London)
FergusG: 3:13:41 (Manchester)
JDA: 2:52:48 (Manchester)
larkim: 3:09:30 (London)
Rossco: 3:05:15 (NYC)
WW: 3:05:45 (Manchester)

Other very notable 2023 performances:

allmatthew: 3:17:40 (Manchester)
Clare: 3:16:59 (London)
KS: 3:35:13 (London)
tipsku: 3:29:36 (Leipzig)

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