The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread
330 watchers
Dec 2014
3:01pm, 18 Dec 2014
10,698 posts
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paul a
Chris talks wisely as ever. Nowadays i run most of my (165) marathons for fun and pacing other people - this is much more rewarding. Still like to race now and then. I appreciate mine is a minority view but it has worked on many people I have helped to marathon success over the last couple of years. Not suitable for everyone for sure, but anyone who is seriously in 3:15 territory should at least try it on one LR.
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Dec 2014
3:04pm, 18 Dec 2014
23,492 posts
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Merry Christmas & HappyNewG(rrr)
+1 for Chris's assessment of Paul A's somewhat *specialist* view point! It's not disrespect - how could you not respect someone who has done literally hundreds of marathons. But I think it shows a very different perspective (which is always useful obv!) Same way that I don't think it's right to say, "Mo Farah does this, so that's what I should do." For most, older (30s and 40s and 50s), hobbyist runners ( 1-2000 miles a year, done it a few years, done a few maras, want to do a few more, want to do better at next marathon, want to build up to doing your best at a marathon some time soon etc.) it is  build base (lots of miles, including as many LSRs as you can)  some speedwork  lots of TLC so you don't get injured (cos injury is a curse!) Anyone* can get quick at 5K, 10K even half. But only those who work hard on their endurance will survive a pacy marathon. And endurance is trained better by low intensity, long activity, than by anything approaching threshold pace running. Unless you've got 5-10 years, then you can "race yourself fit" and you will achieve hundreds of races. But you'll still never do your "best" performance in any one of them. All caveat, imho, just my experience (plus others, plus books, plus a bit of research!) and no one size fits all, everyone is different. And for some it's mental etc. etc.  G (* not anyone!) |
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Dec 2014
3:12pm, 18 Dec 2014
10,699 posts
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paul a
The balance and variety of views is what is really good about this thread - although it must be a nightmare for a new comer to decide which approach to take. This will be about the only thing I will miss from Fetch.
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Dec 2014
3:20pm, 18 Dec 2014
23,495 posts
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Merry Christmas & HappyNewG(rrr)
We will miss you too Paul, as your view, with your enormous and different experience, provides a great challenge to those others of us who only see and read the more conventional stuff. When I was doing Furman, one of the things that struck me though was that we forget how *similar* most components of these training approaches are - like religions arguing about the tiny differences in doctrine and practice, forgetting that they all believe in the same "god", we tend to focus on and discuss/argue about the differences in our different approaches and views, forgetting that 90% is the same. * You need decent weekly mileage * you need to do a long run * you need to avoid injury * you need to do some speedwork * (and this is still the same) you need to do some part of your long runs with pace in them That last one could be shorter MP, could be long run as progressive (start slow, finish MP), could be long run with middle at MP, could be whole long run at MP+not much. But it's still a long run. It still has a bit of it slow, it still needs some of it to be at pace. The variation, and differences matter, but are much, much smaller than those things on which we probably all agree. Vive la difference, but also Here's to a Great Community! G
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Dec 2014
5:11pm, 18 Dec 2014
10,700 posts
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paul a
Well said G.
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Dec 2014
6:19pm, 18 Dec 2014
185 posts
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jdarun
Basically agree, but with the caveat: what is "speedwork"? I didn't go faster than 10k pace last summer (eg in 5 min intervals) and it worked out well enough for me. That said, I'm doing more speedwork now (1 min intervals etc) and enjoying it. Look forward to seeing the effects...
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Dec 2014
8:58pm, 18 Dec 2014
7,803 posts
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Bazoaxe
Speedwork for me is anything faster than PMP...and in fact depending on fitness PMP can be speedwork sometime ! Here is a question....what is the feeling on minimum time or distance for a run to be worth doing ? I used to be in the 6 mile / 1 hr minimum for a run, but in recent weeks to fit running in around life I have been doing some shorter runs of 3-4 miles to work, often with another after work of similar distance and sometimes with a longer run home. I am not sure if there is any benefit in this, but its just been based around my personal cicumstances to fit those runs in around life and work. |
Dec 2014
9:04pm, 18 Dec 2014
2,490 posts
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STOOSH
Anything from 3m for me or i just don't bother but depends on the purpose of the session. If it was just a general run then minimum of 5m but for recovery or speedwork then 3. 2.5m of track intervals tonight for me, moving in the right direction but miles from where i want to be!! |
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Dec 2014
9:10pm, 18 Dec 2014
7,805 posts
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Bazoaxe
Yeah, should have said these have all been recovery type runs at 9mm or slower, usually the day after a harder run
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Dec 2014
9:13pm, 18 Dec 2014
1,172 posts
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K5 Gus
Baz, Looking at P&D, then the days that they do doubles, they have a 4 mile run, which is the minimum in the whole schedule. Think there is a general rule of 20 min for aerobic exercise to start being beneficial - not sure where I remember that from, so may not be entirely correct. |
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