Hadd's Approach To Distance Running

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Jul 2022
2:19pm, 18 Jul 2022
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Bowman 🇸🇪
Ok DrDan, I see :) seems reasonable.
Well I start to think that the test is at to big increments too, and a little imprecise in hr, probably ok for most, but if you want details and don’t know. I’ll talk to them next time, i have one more session.
I mean they do this commercially and with elite athletes, they can probably make it more precise or explain it a bit more why it’s not.
Have you looked at the hr data on the marathon? I manage to be at quite high HR all the way to 32-35km but then I hit the wall a bit :)

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Jul 2022
2:54pm, 18 Jul 2022
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DrDan
I think the test is fine - it's just me making a mistake last night.

Yes, those were crazy high heart rates for a marathon - not surprised you hit that wall haha! Looks like you set off for 3:15, so base don what you now know that would have been between LT1 and LT2... it was a time bomb waiting to go off (we've all been there ... slowing at 32, crashing at 37 is very typical if setting out too hard). Here’s the marathon story so far and you can see I've been there. :-)

Chester 2010 – 4:50:16 … total nightmare – not well, should not have run.
Chester 2011 – 3:32:43 … slowed at 32, crashed at 37.
Abingdon 2013 – 3:38:15 … pushed on at 37, hit the wall at 39.
London 2014 – 3:37:35 … slowed at 32, crashed at 37.
Nottingham 2014 – 3:35:10 … slowed at 30, crashed at 37.
Dublin 2014 – 3:39:10 … deliberately slower “safe” pace – hard but finished OK.
Abingdon 2016 – 3:31:02 … slowed after 37 but didn’t crash.
London 2017 – 3:30:14 … even pace, very tough final 4 miles but no crash!
Chester 2017 – 3:22:56 … even pace, strong at end!! Big PB.
Jul 2022
5:01pm, 18 Jul 2022
1,621 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
Yes ok.
Yea that was really interesting short race reports from your marathons.
I’m going for a marathon in October, my second one, and I wonder where I will decide to set my pace.

I’m in my base training now, or something like that, and I thing I will do maybe 6 weeks of more specific marathon training with faster MP, and then I might know what to aim for.

Going to be interesting. And this time I will try to have a pace that gives me more energy at the end :)

But a have a few more tries racing before I will master it I think :)

Thanks for your insights DrDan
Jul 2022
5:59pm, 18 Jul 2022
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DrDan
It takes a lot of mastering (well it did for me) and even then I screwed up ... I left out marathon #10... York 2018 3:49 which did not go well because I insisted on running it at 5 min/km even though I'd had a poor running year (injury). It was a grim final 10K in pouring rain. Choosing the right pace is key and I will not be over ambitious again.

I'm going to do #11 at the Leeds marathon in May 2023 but suspect it will be a "complete" rather than "compete" as I've been out of the running game for a while and also there's a very long (5K!) climb on the course around 30K. But if it goes OK, I will target a flatter race for autumn 2023.

Lots of base to build first. :-)
Jul 2022
6:35pm, 18 Jul 2022
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Bowman 🇸🇪
It sure does :)

Well good luck to us both :)
JB9
Feb 2023
7:26am, 12 Feb 2023
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JB9
Hi everyone!

This thread might be dead but I thought I’d see if there’s still some experts lurking for some advice.

I’ve being doing Hadd for 6 weeks now and I did the Hadd test before I started and completed another one yesterday. The only problem is I’ve gotten slower at all heart rates apart from one!

Test/140/150/160/170/180
1/9:19/8:27/7:31/6:35/6:00
2/9:31/8:24/7:42/7:02/6:20

My max HR is 190 and all the paces above are in min/mile. Obviously I’m disappointed as I’ve been putting in the miles and really holding my self back to keep the HR in check.

So far my mileage has gone 64, 66, 70, 74 and 76, with this week being a down week of 60. All my mileage has been at 143 bpm or below except the sub LT days which have been 157 bpm (my long runs were originally 147 bpm but I’ve now brought them down to 143 bpm).

I’m at a bit of a loss, I was really excited to bring that 6:00 min/mile down but now I don’t know if this training is working. Am I being impatient? Just looking for some advice on how to continue really, do I keep going and trust the process or am I wasting my time?
Feb 2023
4:12pm, 12 Feb 2023
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Daz Love
JB9 - I wouldn't take one test and one 6 week block as everything. You are putting in the miles and would expect to see that change soon. I am not a full HADD graduate but have tinkered and found every 6 weeks or so a marked improvement (it was like it changed overnight day!) Be patient and pretty sure results will come. HR on a certain day has many other factors hence me saying DONT give up based on one test!

Keep us posted!
Apr 2023
10:47am, 25 Apr 2023
1,174 posts
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DrDan
Have you been able to do 10 miles at your "157 bpm" ILTHR sessions while maintaining a consistent pace? I find this is the most useful measure of progress. I do a 2x2.5 mile out and back, and then repeat it... assuming I've kept to the target HR range, I look to see if the pace is the same for the first 5 miles compared to the 2nd. If the pace drops (i.e. decouples from HR) despite maintaining HR, then it's a sign that you're over LT1 and working too hard.... so next time reduce HR ceiling by 2 bpm. If the pace is consistent over a few sessions/weeks, then you can increase the HR ceiling.... and that's the sign of real progress (i.e. pushing LT1 rightwards on the lactate curve) .

I think ILTHR sessions are equivalent to working at the top of Zone 2 in modern language (defining Z2 in 5 zone model as folk like Stephen Seiler, Iñigo San Millán, etc., do).

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