Sub 3Hr Marathon

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jdarun Feb 2016 7:26am, 9 Feb 2016 643 posts	0 jdarun Well, I barely reached 300km per month in the lead up to my sub3, though I did a bit of cycling too. My training included 2 MP runs of 20-25km, but I didn't actually get anywhere near 3h pace in those. No MP outside of these specific workouts. The more I think about it, the more a fluke it was that I actually went sub3 on that day Next time round, I was even more slack in training as I "knew" I was good enough, the day turned out hot and although I ran a shade faster (according to my footpod) I just missed out on the sub3 as the course measured a bit long! With hindsight a few more long miles would have made a big difference. This time round I've upped the miles a touch (320km already in Dec and Jan), I'm still getting steadily quicker year on year and am confident I should go comfortably under 3 unless I have a bad race for some reason. Still only 3 MP workouts though, it's not something I do routinely. There isn't enough flat terrain to fit it into normal runs, I have to specifically go and seek out the one flat spot.
baz p Feb 2016 9:27am, 9 Feb 2016 2,066 posts	0 baz p I tend to leave MP miles until the last 8-9 weeks of the plan, keeping the first half all about base miles. especially for the longer runs. ive seen schedules that have NO mp miles during long runs, but with a couple of vo2 max sessions per week. The Kenyans don't do mp miles, why should we? hill reps, mile reps etc will all help. saying that MP miles do help the body get tuned for the big day. I don't go over 8 miles MP during one session. check out Steve Ways website (www.steveway.co.uk) , that details his training for VLm16. interesting sessions, a few of which I will be doing during my marathon training.
Huntsman Feb 2016 10:50am, 9 Feb 2016 3,070 posts	0 Huntsman The Steve Way sessions finish with monster marathon sessions and you really need to build up to them by doing the marathon sessions on a weekly basis. This session is absolutely brutal - 30mins MP/ 4 x 5 mins /30 mins MP 3 minute jog recovery after and before 30 mins MP. 2 minute jog recoveries between 5 min efforts. 1st 30 min effort at MP, 5 mins at threshold pace then final 30 mins MP faster than the 1st.
jennorocks Feb 2016 11:19am, 9 Feb 2016 19 posts	0 jennorocks I followed pfitzinger mostly for the process of learning but found I really like having a plan thats predetermined. I think if I put something together myself, even if it was now well informed and maybe even more relevant to my strengths/weaknesses then I would find it harder to stick to because its just me agreeing to stick to what me from a few weeks ago decided (if that makes sense). Certainly over winter, with the darkness and weather what it is I really like the plan being almost out of my hands. The MP runs if nothing else are certainly confidence boosters and I see each one in the plan as a milestone. Whereas other runs (LT/recovery) I will run them according to my current ability (HR or gut feeling) I run the MP runs trying at least to hit goal MP. Everyone thats completed is a success.
baz p Feb 2016 11:31am, 9 Feb 2016 2,067 posts	0 baz p huntsman, I did that session before London last year. great one to do, but the last MP section was soo hard. also a quick fire way of getting long miles done quickly. I agree they are confidence boosters, but don't too crazy with them. most long runs are recommended to be done at about mp+1 to 2 mins.
jdarun Feb 2016 11:45am, 9 Feb 2016 645 posts	0 jdarun I agree with jenno that it's really useful to start from a plan, even if it's not perfect, you know you're not going to be far wrong. Jack Daniels has two main sessions a week, I try to do the first one to the letter (generally a long run with some intervals, this is where my MP runs come from) but often modify/substitute the second shorter one. The rest is just mileage which makes it easy to schedule around other commitments and weather!
Tizer Feb 2016 12:09pm, 9 Feb 2016 1,316 posts	0 Tizer I've always put a lot of focus on MP runs during marathon build up as I'm sure it makes the pace feel easier on the day. Plus on the training front its a tough but manageable pace so its one I've always enjoyed doing. Probably 2 x 10 mile efforts through the week with everything else easy. I changed it a bit last time round, spent more of the first few weeks working on speed then the last 6 on MP and Steve Way sessions. The hardest of those was the one mentioned by Baz and Huntsman above. I found it almost as tough as the marathon itself. Ran it solo as well. 18 miles in total so a good LR....but man it hurt. Stats below to remind me I used to be fit 1) 1m - 8:25(8:25/m) 126cal 3.19/4.38/hr 2) 1m - 7:53(7:53/m) 124cal 3.4/3.99/hr 3) 1m - 7:53(7:53/m) 126cal 3.4/4.12/hr 4) 1m - 7:44(7:44/m) 123cal 3.47/4.08/hr 5) 1m - 6:37(6:37/m) 122cal 4.05/13.19/hr 6) 1m - 6:37(6:37/m) 121cal 4.05/4.53/hr 7) 1m - 6:34(6:34/m) 123cal 4.08/4.78/hr 8) 1m - 6:32(6:32/m) 121cal 4.11/4.81/hr 9) 0.39m - 3:02(7:42/m) 49cal 3.48/4.19/hr 10) 0.82m - 5:01(6:08/m) 96cal 4.37/5.1/hr 11) 0.27m - 2:01(7:35/m) 33cal 3.53/4.39/hr 12) 0.82m - 5:00(6:08/m) 97cal 4.37/4.87/hr 13) 0.27m - 2:02(7:29/m) 34cal 3.59/4.77/hr 14) 0.83m - 5:01(6:05/m) 98cal 4.41/5.01/hr 15) 0.28m - 2:01(7:19/m) 34cal 3.67/4.45/hr 16) 0.83m - 5:01(6:05/m) 96cal 4.41/4.72/hr 17) 0.39m - 3:01(7:42/m) 49cal 3.48/4.41/hr 18) 1m - 6:38(6:38/m) 120cal 4.04/4.69/hr 19) 1m - 6:35(6:35/m) 121cal 4.07/4.42/hr 20) 1m - 6:35(6:35/m) 121cal 4.08/4.96/hr 21) 1m - 6:35(6:35/m) 121cal 4.07/5.35/hr 22) 1m - 7:39(7:39/m) 122cal 3.51/4.2/hr 23) 0.14m - 1:07(7:48/m) 17cal 3.44/3.71/hr
paul the builder Feb 2016 12:37pm, 9 Feb 2016 5,323 posts	0 paul the builder Do it again, looks like you did 4m instead of 30min for the 2 MP sections RFR - around 50mpw was what I was on to get my first sub-3, but that had been for over a year, not just an 18 week plan. All my best marathons have featured a fair amount of MP sessions in the build up, but only off a decent base beforehand, and introduced with gradually increasing distance and effort level (or both). My standard marathon training schedule now has a 10m once a week which is no more than 'steady' in the early weeks, and becomes marathon effort (and therefore pace) in the last 6 pre-taper weeks or so.
Huntsman Feb 2016 12:39pm, 9 Feb 2016 3,073 posts	0 Huntsman Great session Tizer.
Tizer Feb 2016 12:42pm, 9 Feb 2016 1,317 posts	0 Tizer It'll be a while before I'm in any shape to do that again, but if I do, I'll do it properly