Sub 3Hr Marathon
1 lurker |
297 watchers
Nov 2014
9:28pm, 4 Nov 2014
2,394 posts
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clairevmc
hi everyone. gopace - just to add one more possible reason for you to consider regarding your struggles in America - I have trained and raced in the US in a mix of climates (I live in Scotland) and I find it is the humidity as much as the air temperature that can wreak havoc with pace. Also, were you running at a significantly higher or lower altitude than your home? Interesting to hear Lou say that when she was about 3.10 or so pace for a marathon she was able to train with LR's at MP - I found exactly the same but now that I edge closer to 2.59 I find MP runs really tough. I had toyed with the idea of doing a marathon next month in the hope that I could piggy-back onto my ultra training as my endurance really is good at the moment and I think it's my endurance rather than my speed that is holding me back. I have (slightly) faster shorter distance times than some others who have successfully run 2.59 whereas I'm stuck just the wrong side of the 3 hours. However the marathon that I thought about is no longer going ahead this year and there is nothing near me so I will attempt sub3 next autumn. In the meantime I'm going to try to get my speed up and have had a good start with my fastest 10k time since 2008 at a race on Sunday (38.11). I actually ran it unwell - had the race been the day previous I would have been in no fit state to stand on the start line and even on Sunday had a few changes of heart as to whether I was fit to race. Maybe I was so relaxed about running poorly that I ended up running well! So hopefully I can run a pb in the spring. The one thing that I'm going into my next marathon with is the confidence that I have the endurance - training for the 40-miler really has taken the daunting 20+ mile LR's away and I'm now quite happy to head out the door knowing that I'll be running for the next 3-4 hours. My son also starts school next year and I plan to continue as a full-time mum at least for his first term as he settles in (for a number of reasons) so that should allow for some longer training sessions. |
Nov 2014
7:12am, 5 Nov 2014
7,560 posts
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Bazoaxe
Claire It's a shame the marathon option isn't available. You finished almost a minute ahead of me on Sunday and I ran 3:02 just four weeks ago so you should have had a decent chance. |
Nov 2014
11:48am, 5 Nov 2014
647 posts
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dan.
Claire, I ran Leicester two weeks ago and next stop is Malaga to try and get my goal, so if you fancy some winter sun that' s an option! A few fetchies are going
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Nov 2014
3:57pm, 5 Nov 2014
48 posts
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gopace
Thanks for the feedback James74 – looked at your times and was very impressed with what you have achieved in such a short time! Did you start from scratch in ’11 or did you have other endurance training experience? I am 5 years older than you and started less than a year ago and I could only dream about having the development you have shown since 2011 – amazing work, I’m a fan! Any tip about what plan you have been following or things to consider as far as intensity and good sessions as I try to increase mileage would be much valued. Point taken, Iampecunia, I have read a lot about building aerobic base and such and I firmly believe in that approach. At the same time, I am so inexperienced that I want to test what is realistic as far as goals, paces and distances continuously before I race, so I don’t end up in the hospital again as after my half. That is why I ran a sub 40 in training before my second race which was an attempt at a sub 40 10k, that way I felt very comfortable and relaxed during the race even though it was only a month after my half collapse. I know I won’t be able to do it that way for a marathon, but I feel I should be able to run a much faster half comfortably if I am to even try a full so I think I will keep testing at least now and then. I will however do most of my longer sessions at a slow pace and just try to build volume. jdarun – yes, that is where my focus will be (upping the distance)! As for hair, I cut what I have to like 2mm, so I have to run with a cap in the sun. :D Pedro, Bazo and K5, I have read about the Yasso 800s (as described by him here for instance: http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/yasso-800s), but for someone with little distance experience, it sounds suspect. Don’t you think it would be easier to train to pass that than to actually be able to have control over your pulse for the full 42 km? Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts Claire! I am sure humidity played a part together with the heat from the sun (I ran mid-day so can’t blame anyone other than myself for that). Still, since it was not very warm or super humid, I think it was a good indication I need to work more on my heat endurance. A lot more! This was in Florida so elevation was not a factor and I did have similar problems in my half in Stockholm (but made much worse by the fact I could not get any fluid from the cups). Great to hear you are getting closer to sub 3 – you have some amazing results already so I will try to follow your attempts. We have a super girl in our running group that is edging closer to 3:00 as well and she is my idol when it comes to fighting spirit. Sub 3 for a man is good and something that would make me very happy to bag at some point in life, for a woman who is just in a casual gang of runners (no real club or coach), it is pure elite class to be in that range I would have to approach 2:30 to actually be worthy of hanging with the likes of you and her - very well done, and hope you can sustain and build the momentum over this winter even if you missed this opportunity! |
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Nov 2014
5:38pm, 5 Nov 2014
49 posts
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gopace
Read some more about Yasso 800s and made a spreadsheet to be able to get an overview, and in case anyone else is interested in Yasso paces, iI put it up here: http://www.fetcheveryone.com/gallery-showphoto.php?filename=68754_1.jpg Basically, regardless of your goal time, you run 10x800m at a pace that is just over 12% faster than your target marathon pace. The 800m pace is determined by equalling your marathon target in h:min1 to your time for 800m in min2:sec, where h=min2 and min1=sec. That means a 3:15 marathon target translates to 800s in 3min 15sec. Easy, and the table gives you the pace needed for that for different targets. Between each 800m tempo interval, you run 400m at a slow pace. Some say about half the 800m pace, but Yasso himself was not that specific in his verbal account linked in my previous post. If you can't make 10 three weeks or so out from the race, you probably will struggle to make your goal time. I'm sure I won't be able to resist trying this exercise out, but I feel that for inexperienced people like me that lack distance, it may be quite a bit to generous in outcome. Some support for that can also be found in articles like this one: runnersconnect.net |
Nov 2014
6:15pm, 5 Nov 2014
1,756 posts
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57.5 Degrees of Pain
One of the keys to Yasso 800s is that it MUST be off proper marathon preparation. I managed 2.51s before my 2.54 marathon PBso I was close. One thing I would say having got serious about running at a similar age, don't get greedy. Sounds like you are adhering to that by building at shorter distances; it is too easy to get carried away by improvement and end up injured |
Nov 2014
7:32pm, 5 Nov 2014
158 posts
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jdarun
I really don't get the point of doing Yasso as a test of marathon pace. Whatever the outcome, you still have to run the marathon, and cope with the conditions on the day. At least a half is in the right ballpark as far as pace and endurance goes (using a riegel type conversion). So I'd much prefer to do one of those a few weeks out. Or even 10k at a pinch. Another thing I've learnt over the last few weeks is how different intervals are to long steady paces... |
Nov 2014
8:53pm, 5 Nov 2014
880 posts
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Iampecunia
Jda What you've just written I totally agree with through experience. My 5k/10k and HM times are much much quicker than the two marathon times. I could run 10 x 800m at 3:30 pace pace at any point, however, I haven't run enough miles in training to hit my PB potential in a marathon. |
Nov 2014
12:05am, 6 Nov 2014
90 posts
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pedro
Jda, I think as 57.5 says Yassos should be done off marathon prep but then they are also part of the prep themselves. When I did them previously it wasn't a one off test but done over a number of weeks consistently. For me they are not just a test of marathon pace but a contributor to achieving marathon pace. The speed work to go along with weekly mileage and long runs. Like you I would still aim to be running at least a half before and probably a 10k too. I'm going to give them another whirl for next years spring marathon and see how it goes?
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Nov 2014
7:01am, 6 Nov 2014
4,800 posts
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daviec
I've done yasso's in the past but don't find them useful. Too slow for their length and too much recovery in between to be a useful marathon session. I'd prefer either some long tempo intervals, or a tempo run depending on the stage of training I was at.
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