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May 2019
10:06am, 7 May 2019
295 posts
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njosmith
How many sessions do you need to do to see a difference? I don't do enough 'quality' sessions which is partly because I have never seen any benefit from them - this is circular as clearly one needs to do a reasonable number to get some benefit from them.
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May 2019
10:22am, 7 May 2019
7,419 posts
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larkim
That's difficult to impossible to say!
I know my best HM came after a marathon cycle when I hit every session in the P&D 12 week plan, and then in the intervening weeks following the marathon I did some more speed sessions.
They definitely helped me raise my personal bar for how fast I thought I could go in sessions too whilst I was going through the plan.
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May 2019
10:47am, 7 May 2019
4,036 posts
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Windsor Wool
NJO - from the looks of your log I think you would improve on the back of just doing more running. If that's not an option (understand we all have lives!) then I would recommend including tempo running in your training. There are a few different ways of doing this: I like to build up from 3-4 miles at HM pace up to 6 or 7 miles over the course of a training cycle. There are other ways though, including the use of tempo / cruise intervals.
IMHO folks concentrate on shorter reps when they'd be better off doing more volume + a tempo. My view is that if you did a midweek tempo to go along with a lengthening longer run at the weekend you'd see a benefit.
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May 2019
11:29am, 7 May 2019
31,281 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
NJO
I always said the order of benefit for improvement was:
 more miles
more long runs (for half I guess that's 15 milers rather than 20 milers)
(MP miles doesn't apply for half)
a tempo (for half, you could do as little as 5km parkrun as tempo, but building to 4, 5 or even 6)
intervals last - they're fun but the least beneficial, imho.
For leg turnover you can do strides. Take nothing out of you, but get used to the legs spinning faster. G
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May 2019
11:43am, 7 May 2019
7,420 posts
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larkim
Can't disagree with anything HG says there. Though personally I prefer intervals to tempos just on the basis that tempos intimidate me more!
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May 2019
12:08pm, 7 May 2019
14,536 posts
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Bazoaxe
Yeah ,I agree. Marathon training is perfect for HM racing.
As HG says no need to go to far with the long runs, but overdistance a good idea.
Other than a confidence booster I am not sure that MP pace is viewed as a good workout either and so it is tempo at HMP and intervals that should be done. rather than a continues tempo you could make it 3 x 2 miles....
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May 2019
12:45pm, 7 May 2019
7,422 posts
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larkim
I reckon you'll enjoy chasing 5ks OTG. Do you have any parkruns locally to have a blast at? I've run the Bideford one a few times when down there on holiday, fast and flat, but not sure how close that is to home.
I've tried a bit unsatisfactorily to follow P&D 35-55 12 week plan in the build up to Chester half, but a few early niggles and then holidays / work / club races have meant I've not quite focussed enough on it. I think I've mostly hit the sessions, but I've not done the full complement of long runs or an MP running. Though that may well be a moot point anyway in respect of a half.
The races have been good replacements for tempos (though possibly too fast really to be direct replacements), a reminder that I can run fast when I need to. Not quite certain what it will all bring come race day, I think the biggest battle will be getting my head "up for it" properly as I know I'm not quite where I wanted to be, despite being in reasonable shape overall.
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May 2019
12:57pm, 7 May 2019
1,003 posts
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Oscar the grouch
The battle with the brain is the most important.
Bideford is a 90 minute drive... fortunately there is a preponderance of local Parkruns, the closest being 4 miles away, so no excuse other than it is ridiculously popular.
I think I am going to go down the tempo route. I like the sound of 2-3 x 2 miles... just need to recover from Newport first and not be in such a hurry.
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May 2019
1:05pm, 7 May 2019
7,423 posts
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larkim
parkrun makes an excellent tempo - and especially if you can run 4 miles there, 4 miles back and sandwich a parkrun in the middle.
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May 2019
1:21pm, 7 May 2019
4,037 posts
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Windsor Wool
we hardly need a thread with so much agreement!
Just going to post this though; this is the plan that I cobbled together out of Daniels as I trained specifically for the HM in Dec '18 - Feb '19. Look at the Sundays, loads of MP sessions in there. I wasn't sure but I wasn't that bothered in the end given that I knew I was going to be switching to a mara schedule soon after. Seems like Daniels doesn't agree with our normal take on MP as part of a HM training schedule.
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larkim 