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The Environment Thread :-)

61 watchers
rf_fozzy
rf_fozzy
Nov 2021
12:43pm, 3 Nov 2021
15,599 posts
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rf_fozzy
I suggest you talk to some of the people I know who work at the companies that make these things.

The assertion that things aren't tested, interactions are tested etc etc simply isn't true.

They are.

It's true in the relatively recent past that this wasn't the case, but it isn't any longer.

Also I didn't think that glyphosphate was now sold in most weedkillers in the UK any more.

This isn't to say that I am in favour of their use - I'm not, but (like everything) there's a lot of misinformation and wanton misunderstanding that flys around these issues.

Climate change still the bigger and more important issue than this though.

Also this is a reason why (alongside the reduction of chemical use on "traditional" farms) the "factory" method as demonstrated by the video I posted of the one in Netherlands is one of the future solutions in some places.
jacdaw
jacdaw
Nov 2021
12:58pm, 3 Nov 2021
3,452 posts
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jacdaw
Would you like to offer a better explanation for the huge reduction in farmland insects, without including pesticide use?

Global warming is part of the crisis; without insects we are all dead. Neither are "bigger and more important".

And the eu licensed glyphosate, not roundup. eur-lex.europa.eu
rf_fozzy
rf_fozzy
Nov 2021
1:07pm, 3 Nov 2021
15,600 posts
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rf_fozzy
Global warming and climate change is the bigger driver for habit loss.

THE TWO ARE LINKED - BOTH HAVE TO BE SOLVED.

I don't know why you don't understand this.

Insect loss is a combination of factors. Including pesticide use. And climate change.

Climate change is bigger and more important because the cause is global and the solutions more difficult to implement due to political will.

"Local" problems like pesticide use *are* important, but can be solved essentially more easily in theory.

And you missed the point. Glyphosate isn't in commercial weedkillers in the UK any more I thought? Certainly not the ones in B&Q? I may be wrong on this?
fuzzyduck79
fuzzyduck79
Nov 2021
1:15pm, 3 Nov 2021
536 posts
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fuzzyduck79
Industrial strength glyphosphate weedkiller is freely available on amazon uk, eg www.amazon.co.uk/Agrigem-HERBICIDE-INDUSTRIAL-GLYPHOSATE-EFFECTIVE/dp/B0857GJ68T
jda
jda
Nov 2021
1:17pm, 3 Nov 2021
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jda
I’m not bothered by glyphosate, the risks if any seem extremely low in normal use and it breaks down rapidly.
jacdaw
jacdaw
Nov 2021
1:21pm, 3 Nov 2021
3,453 posts
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jacdaw
google.com

"Glyphosate isn't in commercial weedkillers in the UK any more ..."

But, yes, b&q aren't selling it.

Of course I understand that. But fixing the climate won't fix the biodiversity collapse, necessarily. And climate change is just one of the drivers of biodiversity loss. And the main drivers of biodiversity loss are urbanisation, deforestation, land use change, and current agricultural practices. And climate change.

This is the environment thread, not the climate change thread.
jacdaw
jacdaw
Nov 2021
1:22pm, 3 Nov 2021
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jacdaw
The breaks down rapidly is definitely a myth.
JRitchie
JRitchie
Nov 2021
1:30pm, 3 Nov 2021
2,688 posts
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JRitchie
@run free. Take it you made it safely to COP/Glasgow. How are you finding it? My daughter is living in the city but staying close to her flat at the minute.
JRitchie
JRitchie
Nov 2021
1:32pm, 3 Nov 2021
2,689 posts
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JRitchie
... ah. Now reading your blogs.
Chrisull
Chrisull
Nov 2021
1:33pm, 3 Nov 2021
18,656 posts
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Chrisull
OOh steps in, sorry seem to have started a bit of a dust up here.

jacdaw - the Plymouth war on weeds is exactly was what I was thinking of. My colleague conflated the attitudes against that with the attitudes against golden rice GM campaign that Greenpeace foolhardily stood against. I left Greenpeace over that, so we are actually in broad agreement there.

I agree with jda/fozzy to a certain extent - yes it's a small thing, but it's not like environmental groups can make big differences. I mean changing our personal carbon footprint is one, but then as I've demonstrated I can't afford to even change my own heating wise... I don't fly or eat meat, I work from home, walk when possible, recycle as much as I can, there isn't that much else I can do (I mean there's always more) but it strikes me as diminishing returns.

About This Thread

Maintained by HappyG(rrr)
Hi
I've seen environment (whether emissions, power, climate change, access to countryside, whatever you think of as "environment") discussed in various threads: Politics (obviously), the Electric Car thread fetcheveryone.com/forum/electric-car-anyone-61481/ , run free's excellent "Competitive Running and Keeping The Environment Clean" fetcheveryone.com/forum/running-competitively-keeping-our-environment-clean-60907/ my own Greta Thunberg thread fetcheveryone.com/forum/greta-thunberg---jfk-for-the-climate-generation-61044/ etc. but I haven't seen a general one.

So here it is. For those interested in the science, the politics, the action for (and I'll state that for me, this is mostly pro-environment, anti-emissions, anti-pollution etc.) and the hope for the future of our planet.

Useful links posted by contributors:
rf_fozzy: This is quite a good article about how disruptive technology works too: lesswrong.com
Basically about why Kodak completely missed the boat when it came to digital cameras timkastelle.org
run free's Grand Designs example Ben Laws is a man who built his dream: granddesignsmagazine.com granddesignsmagazine.com
Carbon Commentary carboncommentary.com
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